Any issues with Futurlec parts?

[makefast]

I'm a total beginner and am thinking of buying a bunch of parts from Futurlec and then Vero-ing up a few builds.  What I'm wondering is whether there are any particular parts (transistors? etc) that are "crucial" where the cheapo Futurlec bits won't work or aren't ideal?

I'm planning on starting by making a Fuzz Face as it seems like a pretty simple circuit, but from what I have read around the web the specific transistors seem to be really important for it and my plan was to order the value packs (not sure of the quality in there).

[rocket88]

hey make, first off welcome to the site.



anyways. i haven't heard anything really bad about futurlec parts, just that they are super slow when it comes to shipping. personally, i order a lot of normal parts likes resistors, diodes, pots, some transistors and IC's, enclosures, etc. from tayda electronics. many of us order from them, and nearly every 2 weeks they have a coupon for 15% off, which ends up covering shipping and takes some off the order. if you're in the US they have a distribution center in Colorado so you usually get you're order faster then they stated in the shipping time.

btw, the reason why i don't get all my IC's and transistors from them is that I've built relationships with some sellers on ebay and get better pricing by ordering from them, and I order large quantities.

also, you want to build a Silicon FuzzFace, not Germanium, which is the type of material used to make the transistor. Germanium is more finicky, and temperamental and i wouldn't suggest doing any Germanium builds until you get a few builds under your belt. a Silicon FuzzFace is a great first project. if you do decide to build a Silicon FuzzFace the transistor type will effect the sound, as will the amount of hfe, which is a measurement of the gain of a transistor. at this point, just get the transistor stated in the layout and you'll be good to go.

and don't forget, if you have any issues just ask we'll be glad to help get you up and running.

[makefast]

Thanks for the welcome Rocket!  I was actually looking at your Green Giant-esque vero earlier today as another "this looks fairly simple" build.

The main reason I was looking at Futurlec was the Value Packs they sell.  I figured I could get a bunch of those and have more than enough for any prototyping I wanted to do.  If Tayda had similar I would be all over ordering from them because I have read nothing but bad things about Futurlec's shipping.

I also need to upgrade my multimeter and a few other tools before I can actually get up and running (I don't trust the near-free stuff I got from Harbor Freight).

[rocket88]

the green giant, or germanium giant, is very simple. the only issue is that you'll have to bias the transistor and need to get an MP38A Germanium transistor and some Germanium diodes, which you'll have to grab on ebay or from someone here. it's a great effect, and i would highly suggest it.

i just think, and this is my opinion from my experience, is that pedals that use Germanium transistors can be a slippery slope. what i mean by that is you'll have 2 options to get parts; one is to order premade sets from someone or a company, if they have such a set, or two you'll have to order parts in bulk and sort everything yourself. there's nothing wrong with that, but you need to know what to look for, and be aware of what constitutes good pricing, otherwise you can get ripped off easily.

not only that, Germanium can suck you in. to put it in perspective, i started with an order of maybe 200 total of a couple different types of Germanium transistors, and now i'm the emperor of the Germanium Deathstar, long story but you'll find out as you're part of the community. i've got somewhere between 2000-10000 Germanium transistors of many different types. out of all of them i do have some that are not usable, some that sound like crap, and some that are dead amongst the massive amount that are great, but it's something that you have to think about.

there's nothing wrong with the various value packs, the only thing is you'll end up with some that you wont use, or not enough of others. my suggestion is pick out like 2-5 pedals you want to build and make a spreadsheet of everything you need to build all of them. this way you'll be able to get an idea of how much of each part you need before you place your order. then, when you make your order you'll order a few extras of each just in case you break one. this also saves a lot on having to pay shipping over and over. if you look at tayda you can get 1% tolerance metal film resistors for 10 for $0.10 basically, that super cheap. so can put together your own set based on what you need for like nothing. again, nothing wrong with value sets, just my opinion. also, the resistors in the value pack are carbon film, which is 5% tolerance. i try to use them only when i can't find the value i need in metal film. the higher the tolerance the more the value can be off from the stated value.

example:

10k metal film 1% tolerance  is really 10k +/- 100ohm

10k carbon film 5% tolerance  is really 10k +/- 500ohm

i like to know that i'm using a part that is as close to the value i'm looking.

[makefast]

Thanks so much for the extensive reply rocket.  Going down that GE rabbit hole is what I'm trying to prevent right now (especially after seeing the GE prices at Small Bear!!) - too much variance to wrap my mind around when I'm just trying to trace circuits and hopefully get a better understanding of them.  Then throw in the NPN/PNP/Charge pump stuff...

My list of things to build is mostly dirt-related:
Smallbear's Ideabox
Fuzz (probably just a simple Si Fuzz Face to start - although the GE Giant is on my list eventually)
Klone
Timmy
Fairfield Barbershop
Crowther Hotcake
Nurse Quacky

I don't expect to actually box all of the dirt pedals up (probably breadboard them all and then fully build a couple I like), but they all seemed a good way to slowly step up build difficulty and hopefully gain understanding of the circuits and how they are pieced together as I go.

I'll try to print off the vero layouts and then make up parts lists for Tayda.  Might just double the amount of cheaper parts to have extras.

[induction]

rocket88 wrote

10k metal film 1% tolerance  is really 10k +/- .01ohm

10k carbon film 5% tolerance  is really 10k +/- .05ohm

I think you mean this:
10k metal film 1% tolerance  is really 10k +/- 100 ohm

10k carbon film 5% tolerance  is really 10k +/- 500 ohm



For stompboxes, the commonly quoted rule for acceptable variation in any individual component is '10% or less doesn't matter.' (I attribute this quote to RG Keen, but my memory kind of stinks, and I can't find it on Geofex anymore, if it was ever there.) Like most rules of thumb, it's the sort of thing where you have to experiment for a while and decide for yourself, or just take somebody's word for it. I usually can't hear the difference at less than 10%, but I buy higher precision components anyway, since the price difference isn't very big at the local surplus shop where I buy most of my parts.

[rocket88]

Blah, yea.  Didn't even notice. I'm on my iphone and it keeps making stupid changes that I never catch until someone points it out. I think I should read what I write before posting.

I fixed it above too.

And I know for a fact that quote is from R.G. Keen. I think it was one of his commandments that has been posted over the years. I've heard them a lot from him over the last few years. Lol

[makefast]

So is the only source for germanium bits eBay and Small Bear?  If I were to
order 10 transistors off eBay should I assume that some will be
DOA/unusable?  (I blame you and the Germanium Giant for this question
Rocket...)

I'm getting together my parts order to probably drop into Tayda tonight.

[Luke51411]

There are a few sources of germanium transistors, if you decide to go down that rabbit hole, check out the sticky thread about germanium parts. And be careful who you buy from on ebay, most of us have a favorite seller or two that we have had good results with in the past, and one seller even throws in extras most of the time.

[rocket88]

Hey I warned you. You should listen to the emperor when he talks about Germanium. Lol

Well the thing is there are other places, like mammoth(IMHO avoid), there's a few other sellers that are builders like chromesphere's shop(can't think of the web address). If you're ordering off eBay there's a few sellers you should avoid based on their reputation of poor quality or over priced, and those that are great. Ild suggest reading the thread I started that's posted about germanium transistors and diodes (great jumping germanium), it's pinned at the top. We've been compiling as much info as we can about gain spreads, tone, etc about a bunch of different models, not to mention what to avoid.

If you're looking to build the Germaniun Giant, I suggest getting a small lot of MP38A, make sure it says MP38A not MP38 there is a difference. The main reason is that I've had better gain spreads and some higher gain transistors then the MP38. We can talk about what the letter means later if you'd like. Also, you're going to want some Germanium diodes. I would suggest contacting bg2014-manue and see if he can put a set together for you with some transistors, they will be MP38 but should be good, and different Germaniun diodes. We all use him and he's amazing. Tell him you're from here and that you were told you sound contact him about putting a set of stuff together.

[makefast]

Well, I started parting out the Klon as well, and it looks like GE diodes
would be a good option there...so then I got on ebay and...well...

Is bg2014-manue the "Bulgarian Friend" everyone keeps mentioning?  I just
read through that whole jumping germaniums thread to try to find out who it
was and still couldn't figure it out!

He doesn't appear to have the MP38As in stock, only the MP38s - given his
reputation they should be fine though?

There was another seller (Elena I think) that had the MP38As.

[rocket88]

Yep. That's our Bulgarian friend we all talk about. I would get MP38's from him, as they and up being similar to the MP38a as far as gain spreads.

Elena is a great seller too. Now they have huge stocks or parts, and I've gotten many and I mean many transistors from them, hell my last order from elena was 6kg. Again, germanium is a slippery slope, and I would start with what you need rather then buying large stocks of stuff. Trust me. For the klon you're going to want D9E diodes, they're the ones that are closest to spec of the magical ones in the original.

[makefast]

Looks like bg2014-manue is out of most things from the email I got back (out of D9E and D9K and MP38A) so I will probably order from Elena (after my smallbear and Tayda orders come in the mail).

Geeze, this is going to take some organization.

[Beaker]

Hi makefast, welcome to the Deathstar - I'm the tea boy.

The thing with some of these sellers is that they rarely list everything they have access to. I would try emailing bg manue with a list of parts you want, as he will probably help you out with exactly what you need.

As well as him, ml-electronics is a sister shop, then there is orpheus-2005, also in Bulgaria.

In Ukraine, bird_sr71a has great stuff.

In Russia, Elena and rarecomplekt are great sellers.

In Romania, valtek_2005 is really good.

I've bought from all of these, and been more than happy.

New sellers are springing up all the time, like vsete in Moldova, and Kmety Trade Inc in Bulgaria - neither of whom I have bought from - yet!

BTW it looks like ml-electronics now do sample packs - perhaps in response to requests from some of the members here. Check this out:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-Ge-diodes-5-7-types-D9-D18-SFD-GD-D311-and-Si-3-types-100-pcs-plus-gifts-/252053791554?hash=item3aaf93a342

[rocket88]

gonna second the all the ones beaker listed. i've ordered from all of them as well, excluding the new ones he listed as springing up.

btw, beaker you're right about that. he and i were talking about him doing something like that when i placed my last order. didn't go looking to see if he did it and i'm really glad he did, and like the choices he gives right off the bat.

[Beaker]

That's good to know, and as you say, great choices for anyone wanting to dip their toe in the murky Germanium pond.