Are All Overdrives Made From the Same Basics?

[DogBox]

Hi Y'all,
From looking at some YouTube videos and looking over some circuits - it seems like there is a basic type of Layout to follow in the same way Fuzz Pedals have that "Fuzz Face/Tone Bender" type Layout... so the Overdrive will take on the Blues Breaker type basic Layout...
 Is this just because of the Laws of electronics dictate that things are done this way OR is it because you can't get the desired "effect" by doing it another way?
 I have seen the different types of guitar Tube/Solid State Amplifiers and how they can vary but when it comes to Effect Pedals, there doesn't seem to be the variation in design/circuit?
 Please tell me i'm wrong and don't know what i'm talking about...

DogBox [Steve]

...

[Fuzz Prince Of Bel Air]

It's unclear what you're asking.

There are lots of fuzz pedals based on the FF/TB layouts, and maybe there are lots of overdrive pedals based on the BB layout (although I'm not familiar with it).

But what's the desired effect of which you speak? If it's overdrive itself, then there are also layouts like the Electra (relatively clean single transistor boost plus clipping diodes) and variants of whatever the Emerson Em-Drive Overdrive is based on (single transistor overdrive).

Similarly, just off the top of my head, there are lots of Big Muff variants and a few Fuzzrite ones.

So it's not so much the law of electronics, more that people like the sound of a circuit but want to tweak it to improve it, or they start with one of these basic layouts and want to expand it to create something new, or they simply want to pass off an existing circuit as their own creation.

But yeah, there are a limited number of ways you can overdrive a signal.

Plus if something else already gets the job done, you'd be inventing a new (and possibly more complex) way of getting the same (or very similar) sound just to invent something new.

[DogBox]

Hey Prince,
Sorry for being a bit vague... but when you look more specifically at the schematic's of the different effects you start to see a bit of a pattern as to 'how' the designer has arranged things from the output of the transistors/OpAmps to then get the signal to change into the desired result, being:Fuzz, O/Driven, etc.
 Trying to see if that, you want to design an overdrive pedal - you're not going to try to do that with a MN3008 IC for a start and the Circuit you use is more than likely going to be on a tried and proven layout to give the signal enough frequency bandwidth and of certain impedance to act upon your guitar amp that it amplifies an already strong input.
So if you look at any of the overdrive pedal schematics - you would only see the values of the resistors, the microfarads of the caps, etc., change and not so much the actual "layout".
Y'know what I mean now...?

DogBox

[DogBox]

Overdrives, Distortion, etc.,

Since doing some more searching I stumbled onto the Honey-Hole of what I am trying to get across that no-one wants to go near...
 I found a different Kit producer doing PCB's that will come in handy for a number of Pedals...! Looking at different popular Pedals I actually found a Schematic of a PCB for a Tube Screamer that will also make -with different components - the Robin Trower Overdrive PLUS about Five Other Pedals!

Maybe I should have said: Using different components, How many Different pedals can you make using the same PCB (and therefore, schematic layout)???

Apparently, quite a few... Pick a design... Alter as many components as is needed and...Voila! A New Pedal! No wonder some Brands have a Heap of different pedals... they're all just basically the same thing!

Can't someone come up with an Original "Sound, Design, Circuit, that no-one else has put together yet..?

DogBox  

[induction]

People invent original topologies all the time. Most of them sell worse than the tried and true and don't justify their RnD costs.

If an original topology actually sounds different, chances are guitarists won't like it. If it doesn't sound different, why bother? Originality is not an improvement, and the audience will never know the difference unless you tell them.

I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that appears to be how it is.

To be fair, good tone at a reasonable price is pretty much a solved problem.

[DogBox]

Hi Induction,

Like your analogy!

We don't get to see many new "designs"/schematics to get the sounds that are great to the ears on guitar anymore. Not saying that there aren't any.. Just more ways of doing the same thing by changing a capacitor value here, a pot size there... Just hope we haven't run out of ideas or inventiveness!

DogBox

[Neil mcNasty]

Short and rough answer: There's about 4 or 5 circuit variations in each category of pedals, and half of them are Tube Screamers.
Everybody practically builds their variant of a classic circuit and there are quite a few article and videos testing out different brands and their version of a specific pedal.
They play it safe! Nothing exciting going on...
and is why we have/had brands like Z-Vex, Dwarfcraft, Devi-Ever, Death By Audio, Chase Bliss and so on.. To supply some originality and something new.

Here's how I (roughly) separate the different variants of Dirt pedals, according to what is going on inside (maybe it could be helpful to some of the readers):

Overdrive: Pushing an opamp or transistor into breakup/compressing the peaks, often with Soft Diode Clipping in the feedback path for further clipping. Can also be done with cascading booster circuits. (very dynamic) Can often handle entire chords. Rock, Blues, Country Sound

Distortion: Clipping the Waveform even more/cutting the peaks, mostly with Hard Clipping and is therefore highly compressed (not very dynamic). Can mostly handle Power Chords Metal/hard Rock Sound

Fuzz: Slamming the transistor/opamp way too intensely, with way too much bass frequencies and way too low voltage. IOW: Under-performance galore. (any dynamics totally absent or it can have a wide range ala Fuzz Face) mostly it does not handle Chords at all.. Too much harmonics going on and it turns to mud! 1 string, max 2 is more than enough. Mostly used for Solo's and Riffs.

[Neil mcNasty]

Scientificicly Defined: What dictates a circuit and how it behaves (sounds), is the Geometric Arrangement of it's Components. It is the configuration that creates the sound phenomena. The Pattern of Components!
This is why the different "sound phenomena" have similar (circuit) patterns, as it is the pattern itself which is the cause of the type of phenomena/sound that you hear.
Hence the similarities that you observe,

Note that in a small circuit: changing just one single resistor can turn it in to a totally different creature.
Try it on a Fuzz Face and you will understand what I mean. You get a shitload of variations from adjust those few resistors, and is how you end up with a beast such as the Fuzz Factory from Z-Vex coming out the other end...

[DogBox]

Hey Neil,
That's what I thought.. Almost makes you wonder what the designer was trying to make when the prototype gave a "fuzzy" sound.. which sounded OK!
Was he trying to "boost" the signal..? Give it a different sound..?
Over the ensuing years, many started with the basic [what we know from the two-transistor, three capacitor and four resistor circuit] and went from there.. the fuzz (Arbiter, Dunlop,etc...) being the starting point. The "Basics", as I called it. When you start adding IC's, you didn't start off with a circuit using transistors! The advancement in technology gave you a different "Basic Design" to start from..
So without making this a history lesson, we found certain topologies using different components can give us the New or Different sounds that are appealing.
 It's encouraging to know you don't have to be an Electronics Genius to come up with these designs!

[DogBox]

ThankYou! my friends.. Seems like it wasn't really a Dumb question after all!
Even this bloke caught on.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wNxp9--omM&t=57s  Hey, that's MY Question.. suppose I better see if he agrees with me..!

DogBox

[IvIark]

Funny, I watched that vid a couple of days ago. Brian’s a good bloke and makes some great pedals

[DogBox]

Absolutely Mark! I've learned a lot from Brian and his explanations on Pedals is spot-on!
Cool video too. Well worth watching!!