Bonehead move today!!!

[MAO]

I pulled a bonehead move today.

I posted one of my cloned pedals for sale online and at the same time attempted to drum up some business for myself.

Not only did I reference the manufacture's original pedal & website, I used a quote from the site as well.  

And if that's not bad enough, I had designed the pedal's faceplate to resemble the original (I had no plans to sell it publicly when I built it)

A few hours after posting the ad, I received a call from the company's owner himself, treating me with way more respect then I deserved.  

Made me sick to my stomach I most likely aggravated, and most certainly disrespected one of my idols, wasting his time having to deal with my poor use of judgement...or lack there of.

Can't believe I did that. Of course I pulled down the ad as I was hanging up with the gentleman/genius.

Lesson learned, never again...    

[rocket88]

It happens man, don't let it get you down. I'm assuming based on the way you describe the situation it was someone who was big in the DIY scene and his name rhymes with Ryan Camper.

The fact that he called you and it sounds like he was nice in the discussion it speaks volumes about them not just as a person, but as a business man. There are was to go about things, and many of the companies out there forget about that and are run by completed cocks and make threats or make up claims they don't really have. *cough* fooltone *cough*

Hopefully there was more to the talk then just about the one Leeds, you had for sale and that he knows you look up to them and maybe gave you some pointers. Sometimes shit like this ends up being a good thing.

[MAO]

Thanks rockett88, I was half expecting to get beat up as deserved.

Yeah, "Ryan Camper" was amazing on the phone.

I hope my "confession" helps somebody else think twice before making the same mistake.  

[motterpaul]

I am glad you learned your lesson and I have to say I respect the folks in this business who contribute SO much to the DIY community even tho they know that we are basically taking their ideas and using them for our own gain which does nothing at all to benefit them.

Sean Michael - maker of Love Pedals, helped me out when I botched a client's Love Pedal. he actually shipped me a brand new populated PCB for the same pedal WITH the mods the client had requested and did not charge me a dime. My first thought was "good, now I don't have to say anything to the client." But then I realized, "wait, what I really need to do is give Sean credit for what he did" - so I posted what a good guy he is over on TGP.

The last thing I would ever do is rip anybody off for an original idea. I have been involved in copyright lawsuits (where someone ripped us off for articles) and we won judgments of five figures. IP is serious business.

I have written it here before - if you make a pedal you can borrow the circuit design, but what you can NEVER borrow is the brand name or trademark to sell it. The pros know there is no pedal that is 100% original, and their cost of doing business and time & energy is spent just as much in the branding and marketing as it is production. The name, look & trademark is solely their property.

I would encourage pedal builders not to mimic fonts, logos or to use sound-alike names. If you want to be inspired by another pedal out there and build it - do that, but at least change something to make it sound somewhat different and give it a unique name. That is how most of the "big guys" got started also, they know it, and that is why they do not come down on us until we tread upon their good name.

But we will always owe them a big debt of gratitude and respect.

[Frank_NH]

Glad you did the right thing Mao.  Kudos.  

I guess I've never been interested in selling pedals.  I mainly just wanted to learn electronics and understand how the circuits worked so I could mod them and make them better for me.  To that end, this site (and a few others) have been invaluable in my education, and I have a box full of (mostly) working pedals as my reward.

Hopefully, before the end of this year, I'll post an original circuit design that I've been working on for a while and think it will be of interest to the community (think amp emulation + BJT gain stages + Beatles).  Stay tuned...

[Travis]

Duuuuuude Frank I'm so looking forward to that!!!

[MAO]

Thanks Frank,

I've been building pedals since the mid 90s, started with Craig Anderton's books.

Like you, it's mostly a passion to learn and build.  

This was the 3rd pedal I have listed for sale publicly.  

I still feel like a moron.  

What's bugging me today is I had stopped making pedals in '99. They were expensive to make back then and I had made everything I liked at the time. Then this guy comes along years later and changes everything. He is literally the reason I'm making pedals today...and this site of course!

And get this...here I am sitting on my recliner Saturday night, designing my next faceplate, the phone rings and there he is on the other end on the line. My pedal idol, his voice instantly recognizable. Within moments I realized my mistake and felt foolish.

Here's the rub, so instead being able to thank him for all the great stuff he has put out and support given to the DIY community, myself included!, or asking him a couple questions on things still puzzling me, I'm talking with him feeling like I just stabbed him in the back and tarnished the DIY community.

Exaggerating a bit, but that is how I felt.  Like when I was a kid and let my dad down.

BTW, the guy was as cool as he is on youtube. Didn't raise his voice, threaten me or talk down to me in any way. Essentially he just helped me realize it was a bonehead move.

It's going to take a few more days for me to let this one go...


On another note, ditto on Travis' reply!

[Marbles]

Well, your action caused me to have even more respect for the guy, so that's a positive! Plus he didn't take it that bad and you have a great story :D

But maybe this is not the best way to start a conversation asking for tips.. ;)

I'm sure it's fine, it seemed like a friendly conversation without any further grudges.

[Muadzin]

It's a good thing I never build pedals trying to copy the original's artwork. I just slap a big ass Warhammer pic with some labeling and I'm done with i......, with a sec..... , those Warhammer pics I download from the internet....., never mind. I guess I'll just have to keep all my old stuff in a big box in the attic then.

[Frank_NH]

Travis wrote

Duuuuuude Frank I'm so looking forward to that!!!

Yeah so am I.  

I've been slowed a bit because I moved in August - September, and all my stuff is kinda scattered.  So I'm hoping as things slow down in November, I'll have some time get this project posted (with a video demo).  There are a few things I wanted to tweak, but I may just post what I have as it sounds good as it is.  BTW - I used both LTSpice and a breadboard to develop this.  I can't say enough about breadboarding - it's easy, fun, and you can really tweak a circuit by simply unplugging and plugging in components.  

[Travis]

Yeah Frank I breadboard just about everything before soldering. I have a couple breadboards with jacks installed on them so I can easily tweak stuff while playing through the amp. My projects have been consistently great sounding since I started doing that, and no more need for sockets or trimmers on Ge builds. Love it!!

Haven't gotten into LTSpice yet but it looks really useful. Gotta learn how to use that

Whenever you post it I'll give it a shot  In the meantime, any special parts I should order for it?

[Sensei Tim]

MAO Pedals wrote

A few hours after posting the ad, I received a call from the company's owner himself, treating me with way more respect then I deserved.  

Can't believe I did that. Of course I pulled down the ad as I was hanging up with the gentleman/genius.

Mr. Finnegan should be taking notes here.

if you even mention or allude to klon in any ebay ads it's flagged and removed, even if it isn't a klon and you're just making comparisons to it.

I had a similar experience when i made my first diefet... i made it for me and i used some diezel artwork on it not thinking that i would ever sell it.  i put up a youtube video of it and i got an email from Mr. Diezel himself asking me to remove it due to the artwork.  lesson learned!

[rocket88]

that's funny about finnegan and the klon, since how many companies not only make klones, but use the damn centar for the artwork too.

at least it wasn't fooltone, who will try and get pedals removed if you mention that you have a pot that sweeps between diodes, since he claims to have a patent on it, even though jack orman posted it on AMZ years ago.

[Muadzin]

I think this again proves that it pays to always be nice first. It takes just as much effort to be nice as it is to be an asshole, it's just that the long term benefits are greater.

[Frank_NH]

Travis wrote

Yeah Frank I breadboard just about everything before soldering. I have a couple breadboards with jacks installed on them so I can easily tweak stuff while playing through the amp. My projects have been consistently great sounding since I started doing that, and no more need for sockets or trimmers on Ge builds. Love it!!

Haven't gotten into LTSpice yet but it looks really useful. Gotta learn how to use that

Whenever you post it I'll give it a shot  In the meantime, any special parts I should order for it?

Nothing special - I used BC108C NPN transistors, but you can use anything you have.  There is one JFET but it's not part of the gain stages.

[MAO]

another faceplate swapped out, a couple more to go...although I was really proud of that one!

(another advantage of printing on transparencies, easily changed/replaced)

[rocket88]

Got to say man, I do love your new designs compared to the ones that were very inspired by Mr. Camper. Fantastic job man.

[Pavlos]

new faceplate looks really nice, simple but elegant

Sounds like 'Mr Camper' has lived up to and further enhanced his good reputation, unlike some of the other big name builders out there who appear unable to deal with the rest of humanity with anything even resembling civility! And however much we enjoy building our own pedals, this does kinda make me inclined at some point to want to purchase one of his designs, after all he's got quite a few really nice pedals to choose from