Component Storage/Purchasing Mistakes

[M. Spencer]

Hi folks,

As a new builder I am still getting the hang of how to best source and store my components. After sifting the two functioning BS170s out of a storage compartment of full of what I assume are now static-broken ones, I thought I'd start this thread to ask the more experienced builders if they would mind sharing a few of their early mistakes.

Aside from the recent burning BS170 fiasco, I also learned for instance that a 1N914 is a silicon diode, despite the ebay seller saying otherwise ("NOS" "Germanium" "Fuzz"...gotcha!).

 

[Luke51411]

There's always the common Order a cap value not realizing its high voltage and much to large physical size for the build you are buying for...

[motterpaul]

I HEAR YOU ON THIS ONE - I HAD A LOT TO LEARN  

Accidentally ordering SMD IC chips (man, they were tiny). I know people still use them, but I would rather stick to what I can actually see.

At some point you may want to look for smaller electrolytic caps - just make sure they can take at least 16V. Many of the smaller ones they sell top out at 6v. But it is important to note that electrolytics of the same values come in many different sizes, so you do have options. Multi-layer ceramic caps are also great for tight fits. But some are still too big for 2-hole spacing, but they are easier to work with than greenies.

When it comes to Caps and resistors you will need some odd values - so check exactly what values are offered if you buy a set. It is easy to buy two different "assorted" sets that combined will give you almost every value you need.

I initially thought 1/2-watt resistors would be better than 1/4-watt, but they are actually too big for 4-hole spacing, so I can only use them when I have longer spans , which is rare. I will only buy 1/4-watt going forward.

My BIGGEST challenge, though, came from wire gauge. Nowhere did I see it written the 24-gauge was standard, so I stocked up on 22 at first, which is fine for vero - but it wasn't good for some other parts I got.

Another one was "tools" - I have tons of tools I never use anymore. - Needle nose pliers (smaller locking hemostats work better). The big wire strippers are too much, you really should only need a small set that does 24-gauge (which I keep set at 22, just so I don't overstrip).

Self-"locking" tweezers are great. I don't mean they lock - they just hold components in place with tension.



Lighted magnifying glasses - no need for those anymore. All I need is a good lamp and reading glasses. Also, I rarely need to lock down a circuit down anymore (with a clamp or alligator clips), I just hold it in my hand. The only time I ever need to lock one down is if I need to extract a part.

A big "solder sucker" not needed - I prefer solder wick, or I might use one of those small bulbs that suck up solder.

Try to avoid getting too big batches of similar transistors or ICs. If you have 50 2n5088s, you probably don't need 50 2n5089s - they are practically the same. The same with TL072 and TL082 ICs - maybe have 10 each, but not 50. Don't buy 50 TL084s (the 16-pin quad op-amps) - not that many circuits use them.

In fact - at first I was more concerned with using substitute parts when possible, but I soon realized it is better just to order the right parts for what you want to do. Not so much because you can't substitute parts (you can) but because when you do subs and a circuit doesn't work, you start to wonder if it is because of your part selection. Actually, I tried to get people to talk about "good & bad" substitute parts here once, but the thread died. In retrospect, I think it is because most people either have tons of parts stacked up already - or else they just buy as needed (or both).

However - I still think it is a valid topic. For example, I have seen recommending subbing J201s for 2n5457 transistors (OR VICE/VERSA). This caused me a lot of headaches which were fixed by just getting the right trannys. I don't think they are close enough. But as mentioned - regular NPNs (5088s for 5089s) sub a lot more easily. Most op-amps of the exact same type sub pretty easily, but it is also important to respect the small differences.

Diodes are tricky, but you get used to it. They do different things. Some are for limiting voltage, while others are for directionality and circuit protection, while others are best for clipping. Diodes are one set of components where I recommend buying as needed (as opposed to getting a large set of various ones - most will go wasted for what we do).

Trimmer pots - the cheap ones can burn out, but the better ones can take up too much real-estate. I try to find the right-sized ones that are not too cheap. Don't use a metal screwdriver on the cheapest ones - they will burn out.

LEDs - make sure you know what size you are buying so you get the right bezels and current limiting resistors you need.

[M. Spencer]

Good ones folks, I definitely have a supply of caps too big for any reasonably sized pedal. Maybe when I get into building amps...

Motterpaul that list is fantastic, a lot of great stuff in there, thanks!

Thought of another one: buying DC jacks that have a mounting ring on the outside instead of the inside. It's nice to be able to take the whole circuit out of the enclosure when you biff it with the outboard wiring.

[motterpaul]

Yeah, the DC jacks that attach on the outside are a great idea. Last time I looked, though, they were pretty pricey. Still a good idea, though.

I also just invested in a drill press for cutting VERO and boxes. This is a MAJOR help.

I also think it is a good idea to get pots with lugs that push into VERO. then you can just solder them in and then solder wires to the VERO. It seems a lot faster than soldering to lugs, and the pots are all evenly spaced.

Here is another - a lot of people use a PCB for the 9-pin 3pdt footswitch. FWIW: I now find it easier just to wire it up myself. Not that a PCB is a bad idea, but it can take up extra room and if you make an error you have to take out the whole switch just to see what went wrong.

Some of them have solder points on top instead of underneath. I think this is a good idea. I mean everything is workable if you get used to it so there is nothing wrong with these. I just personally did not find them to be that helpful in time or space.

[rocket88]

Here's my take on everything, parts storage, ordering, tools, etc.

Parts:
When I started building I would make a list of 5-10 builds I was planning, and from that I would make a list of all the parts I needed on excel so I could place one order for everything I needed. Now I would always order a little more then I needed, especially transistors as there are variances that could make one sound better then the next, so if I needed 5 bc108's I would get 10, I would do the same with resistors, and caps.

I try to use the smallest parts I can get away with to prevent parts cramping up. With electrolytics you can order ones that are reasonably sized from tayda for cheap just by sticking to 25v, which you don't have to worry about being blown due to voltage. I also use SMD ones for super small builds, like 1590a boxes.

I also suggest buying some sets of multilayer ceramics, they're on eBay and there's a link posted under bargains for them. I also like using the red panasonic caps, which are small especially compared to greenies, again check the bargains section for the link.

Wire diameter doesn't matter, so 20-26g is fine. Some of us like a little thicker wire to work with, in fact I started using 22g solid core, but now use 24g stranded. I made the switch based in a suggestion from one of the guys, not due to the size, but because it's stranded. This means that the wire is bendable without breaking easily, unlike the solid core. This helped make my builds neater, as I could make the wire to where I wanted if and it would stay in place, the fact that it's thinner is just something else. You find what you like, but I highly suggest going stranded wire.

Organizing:
For me no that I keep a rather large stock of parts, not as much as mark, but still fairly large, keeping everything organized is paramount. Each of us have our own way, so mine works for me. What I do is all my resistors are kept in 2 long boxes and orders from lowest to highest. I have resistors from 1ohm up to 10M, so I have one box from 1ohm to 19k, and the second from 20k-10M. I keep a stock of pots so I can build whatever at a moments notice, and keep them in two parts organizers with draws, each draw labeled for each value so they don't get mixed up. My Si transistors, JFETS, and MOSFETS are kept in similar boxes to my resistors and organized in order and by type, so all my BCxxx are in one section ordered from lowest to highest, 2nxxxx all together ordered from lowest to highest etc. Ge diodes, IC's, and electrolytics same as above. My Ge transistors or in plastic shoe boxes arranged by country of origin, bagged by type, and in number order of hfe. Panasonic caps, box caps, multilayer ceramics, regular ceramic, and SMD electrolytics are in those compartment storage containers in value order. Lastly, I have 2 more storage drawer cabinets that hold switches, dc jacks, mono/stereo jacks, knobbies, LEDs, Si diodes, spare pieces of cut vero, and a few assorted parts. You can get a look at my work space if you checkout my posts I made one when I finally got my new workspace up and running end of December/beginning of January.

I'm all for having 20 or more of the same IC or transistor as you can get bad or faulty ones, you could break the legs, etc. it's always good to have extras, maybe not as much as I got, but I always made sure I had extras in case of a problem. Also, while some IC's or transistors can be substituted for one another they can and usually do sound different. So, while you can sub an ME4003 transistor for a BC108 they will sound different. But, with IC's usually if the number is the same they will sound the same, or at least very similar so a LM741 will sound the same as a UA741.

Tools:
I've always used a normal weller 40-60watt soldering iron, but since I'm going to be selling soon I figured I should upgrade to a soldering station, which just arrived today, which is not necessary as if you can't solder with an iron you're not going to be able to solder with a station. I'm not crazy about using the sponge, so I grabbed the brass ball for cleaning my tips, because it doesn't lower you irons temp. Get a set of small pliers that have clippers, needle nose, bent needle nose, and flat pliers. They're help you bend leads, pull wire, and get into spaces you can't get you're hands in. Those cheap small 2nd hand things with a magnifier are great when installing tall components, as it will hold your board where you want if and most importantly straight.

Make sure you've got a multimeter. It doesn't have to be expensive, but it's one of the most important tools you can have. You can check continuity, resistance, voltage, etc. which you need for debugging. I have 2 sockets, one for the stomp switch nut, and the other for the input/output jacks, makes it quicker to install. And lastly you should have some sort of drill for the enclosure and the board, I use a drill press which makes it easier and smoother to drill everything straight. You also need a way to cut the vero, I use an xacto knife to score it and a tool that's like a pair of pliers with a razor blade to cut the score. I found this to be the cleanest and easiest way to cut my boards out. And don't forget a sharpie to mark out my board and where my cuts should be.

Again, you can see what I use from the thread about my workspace. It's entitled "finally!!!" I can be more descriptive and post some pics if you want too man. Hope I helped at least a little, and welcome to a hobby that might as well be crack. You'll be shocked at how addictive it can be. Shit, I've become the resident Ge transistor hoarder.

I've seen those jacks you mentioned and I think the main reason they're not used is because they don't look as clean as the ones that have the nut inside the enclosure.

[M. Spencer]

Way cool, good stuff in there as well. Thanks fir the reply!

[Beaker]

This is my top tip - ribbon cable - makes wiring up pots and switches much easier and neater. Just run a knife down between the conductors and snip off the length you need.

I got mine here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spectra-Strip-Ribbon-Cable-135-280-3-AWG28-25-way-5mtrs-/251241722708?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a7f2c7354

[rocket88]

And one thing you can do to help getting screwed on diodes. Typically ALL Ge diodes are in the larger DO-7 package, not the smaller DO-35. If the listing says the diodes are germanium and it lists the package as DO-35 then it is most likely a Schotkey workalike. This doesn't mean they won't sound similar or they sound bad, in fact I have some 1n34a's that were listed as Ge in the auction and are DO-35 package, so they're Schotkeys and they sound fantastic, so good to my ears I bought a bunch of them. I did point out to the people they were not Ge and they were workalikes, and they were actually surprised. They changed it in their auction as to not lie to anyone. Luckily their prices were dirty cheap for them being workalikes that it didn't matter to me.

Also, if you get into Germanium transistors, do not buy the open packs on eBay if you can help it. What I mean by that is there are people that sell packs of 10 or 20 ac128's or oc41's that they claim are untested, but people will get them and say every last one is junk so they had to come from a batch that was picked through and these are the leftovers. Get them from reliable sources like smallbear at first. They will be feasted and sorted for specific circuits, so they wills cost a little more, but better then getting screwed. If you want to sort your own, and really get into it then you'll need to get a bunch, 50 and up and sort them yourself. We have listed somewhere people on eBay you can trust, for instance there's a seller from Bulgaria we all use, who comes on here and knows us. We use him because he's honest, sells good quality parts, has unreal prices, and takes care of us. But, I'll warm you Ge is major addiction, and once you're hooked, you wake up with orders you don't remember placing, and have stockpiles of Ge, but you just want a little more. Lol

[dbat69]

I would echo echo what Rocket just said.

Germanium is addictive

Out of all the Ge diodes I have sourced, they all are DO7 with the Si or Schottkeys being the DO35 package which is about half the size - they also often look a little different (more copper colour inside) at least on the batches I've got.

Yes I too agree that you are better getting unpoened batches of transistors.  I've had a lot of bad transistors when I get them in lots of 10 off ebay - but I just can't help myself - I want to try lots of different ones and am trying to build up my stash (I'm still a long way behind Rocket and Mark )  I test all my transistors and have found a lot of the European transistors, i.e. AC and OC types are just a crap shoot, I'm trying some of the more obscure types but finding similar results although you do get the odd good one.  BUt as Rocket says, they are more than likely what is left after the batches are cherry picked.

But our Bulgarian friend (bg_manue and ml_electric) has some lovely items which just keep on tempting me - not least also due to him being such a good friend to our community and generous - definitely a top chap and very trustworthy.  Ohh I feel another Ge fix coming on

rocket88 wrote

They will be feasted and sorted

Sounds tastey  I blame you Rocket - you know how hungry I am for Ge.  Now I've got to get a fix

[rocket88]

Fucking autocorrect. It should said tested and sorted. I really should check some of my posts before I submit them, hell it sometimes changes when I type fuck to duck. Do you know how odd it is when you say something like do you know how ducking awesome something is?

Btw, I got some. MP21E's from our buddy in Bulgaria, going to be posting soon under the germanium thread about them.

[dbat69]

rocket88 wrote

Btw, I got some. MP21E's from our buddy in Bulgaria, going to be posting soon under the germanium thread about them.

Nice - I got some too

I must build a pedal just to test my Ge's so I can add to the thread.  I've got a lovely load of different diodes which I must test (I've had so many other things going on I've just not been around or had the time lately)

Just to bring this thread back a little, I've been getting some of those "Really Useful Box"s in various sizes to store some of my components - they're a tad expensive, but are nice and stackable, strong, see through (depending upon the colour of the box) and have clippy handles which secure the lid.

The bigger boxes are great for all the Ge transistors I get from our Bulgarian friend - I have one box for all the ones I've tested and bagged, another for those lovely unopened Russian boxes  and a further one for those that are waiting to be tested.