Describe your Test Amp - what do you use to listen to new builds?

[motterpaul]

I was just looking at the "best builds" thread and I see some people recommending certain pedals. When it comes to clean sounds I think we are all in the same ballpark for testing amps - but what do you use for testing your overdrive pedals?

It makes a big different - in how much gain you get, where the "crunch" starts and whether the crunch comes from the preamp or the output, or the speaker. If you are using a Fender Champ, or a Twin Reverb, or your gigging amp, you are going to get a far different response than if you use solid state Roland Cube.

My test amp is a small 30-watt all tube amp with 12ax7 pre's, 5881 pentodes and an EVM12L speaker- brand is Spectra - the company was soon acquired by Dean Markley who used the same design for their first models and charged about $1000 for them. I got mine for $100 off CraigsList.

Not to imply it is a great amp, but it seems to be a very straightforward and neutral small tube amp . If a pedal sounds great on it, it usually sound even better on a bigger amp. I only use the clean channel for testing builds and the preamp is easy to drive into high gain and sounds sweet with the right pedal (it likes Jfet circuits over OpAmps).

What do you use to listen to your pedals, especially overdrives?

[Frank_NH]

That answer is simple - I use the amp I'll be playing the pedals through if I gig them.

I my case that is a vintage (heh) Roland BC-60 Blues Cube (not to be confused by the more modern Cube series).  I keep the EQ knobs (bass-mid-treble) at 12 noon, but may adjust the presence slightly.

There are settings on the BC-60 to get tube-like crunch, but I keep those off and use a clean setting exclusively.

Paul is correct though that some effects sound best through a tube amp on the verge of break up (e.g. Rangemaster and tube screamers at low gain).  In addition the type of guitar, pickups will have an important effect.

When someone demos a pedal on YouTube, they usually indicate the guitar they're using and play the clean signal before engaging the effect; otherwise, the demo is a bit meaningless.  Thus, I can at least get an idea of what a pedal is capable of, even though it may not sound exactly the same through my rig.

[rocket88]

Mesa Boogie M6 Carbine, powerhouse 4x10 cab. I test on what I gig with. How can you get the sound you want if you use something different then you use live. End of story. I just keep the volume down lower the gigging levels, cause 600 mesa boogie watts is a lot to say the least.

I will also use my bugera v22 to test, which is my go to tube guitar amp.

[motterpaul]

Of course, if you are building a pedal for yourself then you would tune it to your gigging amp, but when the pedal makers put out a pedal for sale they don't know how they will be used, so they probably have a selection of standard amps they use to find a happy medium; or else they build a pedal to target a specific market. There is a big range of sounds out there that people like. Some people loves strats through twin reverbs, some like Les Pauls through Marshalls. Some like SRVs strat, some like Claptons preamp-onboard strat.

I am not out to improve my gig rig - I have that where other guitar players seem to like it and sound men compliment me all the time. But I use tube gain (Marshall DSL 100, or EVH 100-watt) on Channel 2 for overdrive. When I put a Distortion+ in front of that I don't  even hear much difference because tubes can only be pushed so hard, but put one in front of a 60's Bassman and it sounds like a Marshall.

To me the best sounding overdrive would replace my gig rig, the idea being to get smaller. I have built a few pedals where I could use it with my small test amp and it would sound almost as good as my Marshall.

But I am just asking the question so I have a better idea of why some builders here like certain pedals over others - knowing what amps people are using to form their opinions is just more information. But I don't mean to make this personal - I am asking to get a perspective on what the people who responded here used for an amp.

[Neil mcNasty]

I often use my gig amps: a Silvertone 1483 and a Telrad TGF-5 (1952 Norwegian rarety).
But since both these amps are very old and not something that represents anything that my friends use, I mainly test stuff I build for other people on my Yamaha THR-10C, since it simulates a wide range of standard amps + it is so small that it fits nicely on the desk where I'm building, and also has a headphone output.
A highly recommended practice/test amp.
Sounds great and is really loud compared to it's size.

[Frank_NH]

For me, I just build for my own amusement and use, so I base my likes-dislikes on how a given effect performs with my rig.  It would be the same if I bought the latest BOSS pedal - if the pedal didn't deliver the tone I was after with my guitar/amp, then back to eBay/Reverb it goes!

So just what kind of tone am I after?  Mainly classic rock overdrive/distortion along with a blues-edge-of-break-up, not necessarily in the same pedal.  Things I like:

* Bright top end and adjustable mids
* Tight but not farty, flubby low end
* Smooth, natural decay of distortion/clipping (some pedals fail here)
* Interactive with guitar controls (responds to volume roll-off)
* Works well with both single coils and humbuckers

Things I don't care for:

* Diode switching - Switching diode configurations provide some subtle differences, but I think it can be just too many controls.
* Boost switches - why not use a booster pedal instead??  And some "boosts" are really just reducing gain losses through resistors (e.g. OCD).
* Treble cut/bass boosts - I'd rather have continuous control pots for EQ.
* Ineffective tone controls - there are some pedals where the tone control does almost nothing!  Sheesh - have it do something!
* Any kind of gated sound, whines, whistles...maybe for nu metal or prog rock, but otherwise...
* I like fuzz, as long as it's smooth and musical.  No square waves!
* Any highly non-linear control - choose your pots wisely, my son...

I think that covers it...

[rocket88]

Well, as someone who does sell, I still test on my gigging gear. No matter who you're building for, demoing or testing on something that can't be used at gigging volume, in my opinion is usless. Unlike Neil, my amp setup is not rare, but not everyone uses it, but what it gives is an idea of how it will change the sound of someone's setup. Example, my jaguar bass is completely modified from the pickups to the bridge, tuners, wiring, etc, but since there is a pbass pickup it gives an idea of how an effect I may will sound through a pbass.

The issue is that what you're saying about builders that sell would be able to and try to test on many different combos of amps and guitars, but unless you're a large manufacturer or have friends with different combos that's not possible. What could be done is use an interface with amp modeling software, then you can test almost any any combo. You also have to think that if you watch a demo, and something sounds gear you take it home and it sounds like shit, it could be that the person demoing the pedal has spent more time with it, and knows it better, and/or is a much better player, think Andy from Proguitar shop, will make an effect sound better then you can. Not to mention how you set up the amp will determine the overall tone.

Not to mention, I don't think that it's about making your rig smaller. If that were the case, just get a DI box and run your pedals through it directly into the PA, of get a small 1 watt or 5 watt amp and mic it. Remember that the amount of headroom the amp has will effect the amount of clean you get, which determines your threshhold before the amp breaks up on it's own. More wattage, more headroom, higher threshold before amp breakup. This is one reason bass players want/need higher wattage amps compared to guitarists. This is so why when you play someone at bedroom levels with an effect then go to play with your band at gigging levels you won't sound the same.

If you're talking about building and using effects to better your tone and get the sound you want, the the size of the rig is based on what you want. Jay from Dinosaur jr. has a pedalboard so big that the pedals are crammed on as much as possible and the guitarists in Kylessa have 3 multi tiered pedalboards just to get what they want.

[motterpaul]

Neil - that Yamaha THR-10C has interesting reviews. It reminds of the AxeFX tech where they claim their DSPs actually emulate what a tube does in a preamp circuit (rather than just shaping the output of the same signal circuit with different EQ to model different amps).

Obviously, the tube response of any amp is vital to predicting what a pedal might do with another amp. I like my Spectre a lot because it reminds of a large tube amp, brought down to a smaller size, but with the same breakup characteristics you would expect from a classic guitar tube amp like a single channel JCM800. For example, even on the clean channel if you push the input volume all the way up you start to get some crunch.

If you have a modeling amp that can truly reproduce the gain staging of classic amps that is much better than an average modeling amp. Did you say it is a highly recommended TEST amp - as in by pedal effect makers or similar?

[Frank_NH]

rocket88 wrote

Jay from Dinosaur jr. has a pedalboard so big that the pedals are crammed on as much as possible and the guitarists in Kylessa have 3 multi tiered pedalboards just to get what they want.

The Edge...



"Edge's current guitar rig utilizes tens--possibly hundreds--of thousands of dollars' worth of rare and vintage gear. But he also uses very common, mass-produced modern effects, too."

(BTW I like his live tone...)

[motterpaul]

The Edge? Two Pod XTs? That's a piece of gear I couldn't sell fast enough. Looks like a Silver Centaur -  and TC Helicon Delays - the cool thing about them is the delay time follows what you play - which is perfect for the Edge since his thing is to lock into a set delay time.

But how can he gig with amps that small? 30 watts?  Just kidding.

I lost a response - I was saying I really agree with your likes/dislikes, Frank. I don't care for any diode-based clipping I have built yet. I like the Tim with the diodes switched out. I also dislike the passive tone controls on the Tim, a waste of a knob.

I hate a switch where I can't hear a difference, or a knob that has almost no control.

Give me a good solid tone stack where every knob works - with no farting or gating effect on the decay (Unacceptable).

[Neil mcNasty]

What I'm trying to say is: The Yamaha THR does work nicely as a test amp for me. And it sounds pretty darn good...
Specially the Fender Deluxe setting is handy, as these amps often are much brighter than many other amps. Specially compared to the amps I use, which has a much more heavy and tight bottom end than the Fenders.
But I only use it for testing, not for deciding if it's a pedal for my board or not... My gig amps are the ones that settles the issue.

[Muadzin]

motterpaul wrote

The Edge? Two Pod XTs? That's a piece of gear I couldn't sell fast enough. Looks like a Silver Centaur -  and TC Helicon Delays - the cool thing about them is the delay time follows what you play - which is perfect for the Edge since his thing is to lock into a set delay time.

I think he used the Pod, first versions, not the XT, for some hi-gain amp sims on a song or two. Probably Elevation. As far as we know it Edge has never used a Klon live, or a TC Helicon. He has been an avid user of the Korg SDD-3000, the Korg A3 and the TC-2290. His newest rig however has dropped most of them in favor of 4 Axe FX's. And unlike most people it would seem he has no problems with Line6 gear as he kept his custom distortion modeler rack unit.



As for what I use to listen to new builds, I have this tiny Fender mini twin amp, which I use. Because I live in a flat there's no way I can get away with using one of my big amps. All the more so since I do most of my soldering in the evening or at night. And I do prefer not to be chased out of the building by an angry mob carrying pitch forks and torches.

[Geiri]

Since I hardly make one-offs anymore (too busy with production pedals) I have set up a rig that I use every time so my testing is consistent and quick.

I've got a few amps and my favourite is broken at the moment. It's a 1965 VOX AC50 head that is the absolute best pedal friendly amp I've ever tried. I'm having it fixed soon.

What I currently use is an Orange Rocker 30 combo but I've taken the amp out of the cab because the cab sucks. I've got a 1984 Marshall JCM800 2x12" combo which I use as the speaker cabinet for the Orange head. I know the JCM800 is awesome but I feel the Orange is better suited for testing pedals, until the AC50 is fixed.

Like I said, since I mostly just build the same pedals over and over, I need to be able to test quickly to see if they sound consistent every time. I've got the cabinet under the desk and the head on the desk so that I can have short cables and then I've got a tiny pedal board with a Pedal Power 2+ underneath.

I'd post a photo if I had one now but I can do it later!

ps. Yes I love making the same pedal over and over again!

[JaviCAP]

As soon as the board is done and wired to the testing box, I plug it to the Marshall Valvestate, just to be sure that everything works and it doesn't blow anything  (a (8100 VS is quick and esy to repair if needed).

Once the circuit is fully working and there's no issues, that's when I plug it to the JCM 900 with a 1960 cab or the Laney Cub with a 2x12 cab.

The Cub is great to test modulation and overdrive effects, not for fuzz or really dirty ones. The JCM  900 is just great to test the most noisy pedals and to check the effect at live volumes.

As Zach, I think  too that a pedal that doesn't behave right at live volumes, is a worthless piece of shit.

I test too the pedals both with a Telecaster and a Les Paul, to see how they work with singles / humbuckers. Sometimes with the telecaster (with a SD Hor Rails in bridge) is enough.

J.

[Vince]

I use my little Marshall JTM-1 head into a 1960ax for a quick test to make sure it's working to save having to turn on my Vintage Modern head for a minute and back off again. The JTM is great as I can get totally clean to break up to medium gain in one sweep.

[motterpaul]

Of course I agree with you guys about a pedal being required to work under live conditions. But in today's market with a lot of bedroom players and small amp blues jams (the average blues jam I attend here in Phoenix has people using 1x12 20-watt amps, small Fenders mostly, even smaller) I think a lot of guys are looking for pedals that make that little amp sound huge.

So - with dirt pedals, if it can turn my smallish 30-watt amp (which is not that small, 30-watts is a loud amp) into a >Marshall sound< first, then I take it and plug it into my Marshall DSL100 or EVH-5150 (100-watt) going thru two greenbacks. But the small amp is my first stop for making sure builds are working correctly and sound good. It is a good basic tube amp - very straightforward and gets  a nice crunch on the clean channel - it just has a smaller transformer. Plus the EVM12L is a powerful and more full-spectrum speaker which tends to show problems if they exist.

With a good pedal the only differences I hear when moving up to a larger rig is more low end because of the bigger cabinet, but in most cases the overall tone is largely what I already expected. But yeh, I wouldn't take a pedal out of the house without testing it on big rig first.

[motterpaul]

Vince - this is pretty much what I think. The whole idea of that amp (JTM-1) is to emulate a big amp in a smaller package. That amp has the same basic pre-amp and rectifier as the original JTM-45, but it just feeds into a smaller power section. With a pedal, most of the action is in the pedal and how it interacts with the preamp. Like I said, if it works there, you then move to a bigger rig and see how it sounds when much louder.

On a bigger rig you get more low end, and sometimes you also encounter more noise than you expected, (but any noise is something I prefer to deal with before I take it to a big rig).

[rocket88]

First off, JAVI!!!

Now that I got that out of my system. It's not so much that a larger amp adds low end, it's that it has more headroom, the ability to be more clean at higher volumes. The increased low end would be from the speaker setup, ie a 1x15 will have more lowend then a 2x12 or even a 4x10. Not to mention the speakers themselves will alter the tone.

It really comes down to what you want to hear. I'm not a huge fan of ampeg amps, because you will always have that ampeg sound, it's just in the design. Just like Vox amps are typically bright, and mesa's will right you fucking face off if you give it the opportunity. The goal in testing pedals, IMHO, is you want whatever amp set neutral and be something you CAN gig with, otherwise you get a class sense of what it will do. For instance, I still have my old solid state fender bxr amp from when I was 10 and first learning. Sounds good, but everything I tested on it, then tried if on the mesa, I can tell you it's night and day. Not because of the size of the amp, but it's like if you learned to drive on a smart car, then your first car was an Aston Martin. Both are cars, but no where near the same to drive.

Also, like Javi, I will use my "normal" basses or guitars to test production pedals. Not many people will have something like my G&L L-1000, so if I test using that its not going to help anyone. So I'll use one of my jazz basses, despite being made by me and completely different then one from fender, it will has the fender jazz tone, just different.

Just things to think about.

[motterpaul]

I am happy to see Javi here, too. He also built the Diesel which I am currently working on... and its been interesting.

Yes, Rocket, I agree on headroom. The one thing I don't like about most small amps is they are designed with "squishy" output tubes like 6v6. Mine has 5881s and has a plenty of headroom.

I really don't like squishy output tubes. I had a DSL401 with EL84s that was the worst. Fizzy and ear-piercing bright - when you overdrive them. AC30s sound great with EL84s, but you can't really power them up into heavy distortion with just the onboard preamp.

Speakers make a huge difference, too. My Fender Twin had JBL D120s, and every overdrive sounded bad through those. Also, when I plugged a Marshall head into those speakers it sounded awful. Guitar amps are voiced to use guitar speakers (when in overdrive), like Greenbacks or G12-65s - but on clean sounds they want more "hi-fi" like speakers, Like JBLs.

Mesas mostly use 6L6s, which have the most headroom. I use those on my EVH, and my Marshall has KT66s (but by Sovtek, so they are actually more like rounded 6L6s). I like EL34s, but they also sound a little too squishy to me.

[rocket88]

you happen to be mistaken. its not the tube type that determines headroom, its the design of the amp. some tubes will naturally breakup earlier, some later. for instance the KT88 will breakup much later, and has a more highfi, clear sound. 6L6's typically have a chimey sound, and define the 60's american sound, while the EL34/EL84 defined the 60's british sound. you can't really swap one for the other in an amp. the amp is designed for one or the other, and is part of the character of that amp. if you think about preamp tubes, change a 12AX7A for a 12AX7Y, and you'll be presently surprised at the difference in the amps behavior, especially clean headroom/gain.

headroom is the wattage of the amp, my 600watt mesa has more headroom then a 400watt ampeg end of story. changing tube type will change the character of the amp, not the amount of headroom. what's the difference in headroom between a 20watt tube amp and a 40watt solid state amp? nothing. both will have the just about the same amount of headroom, because a tube amp rating is typically half of that of a solid state amp. also, keep in mind you may not really need a huge wattage amp, i mean Zakk Wylde uses amps that are like only 120watts, while bootsy collins uses amps that are over 4000watts. the amp and wattage has to match you. what i mean is your style, the type of music you play, etc.

guitar speakers are guitar speakers, but they're like people, they have their own character. it's based on the material of the cone, type and strength of the magnets, the shape of the cone, as well as a while lot more. you can't just change a speaker and expect an amp to sound amazing or drastically different. different speakers allow certain characteristics of the amp to shine. side note, speakers get better sounding when they get broken in.

i think you have a few misconceptions about how all of this comes together.