Fulltone Plimsoul OD

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Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
I wanna build it.
Any caution to take care before buying the materials ? suggestions ? tips ?
most important .... SOUNDS GOOD ??
bests! thanks!
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Frank_NH
Looks pretty straightforward - supposed to sound good (it's a RAT-tube screamer hybrid).  Build it and let us know what you think.  
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
I plan to have it in a 3 i n1 project I do for a friend. Plimsoul OD, DBA Fuzz War and a Wampler Spring Reverb.. I will update of course since Its the next big thing for me a young pedal builder :D
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

IvIark
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Test them all individually before boxing using terminal blocks or similar to make temporary connections.  Nothing will make it more complicated to troubleshoot than building it up first, finding something is wrong and then having to work out whether it's the circuits, or the wiring, or the hardware, or the components etc etc.
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
yes yes yes
that was my plan.. the question is how exactly ??
I though maybe finish each board individually and then using a bredboard attach the pots and jacks, right ?
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
and lets say I do so.. is there actually a way to break a line on a breadboard like we usually "scratch out" on a vero board ?
thanks a bunch!
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

IvIark
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Yes I use a breadboard, or sometimes a terminal block because it does make a better connection than breadboards which can be more susceptible to oscillation.  You don't need to make an equivalent to a cut with breadboard, just use the next row which is isolated from the last.  But you don't need to think about that too much. Pots with posts can push straight into the board, so just use one row per lug so they remain isolated and use links as necessary.  
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Frank_NH
In reply to this post by Tune Tone
If you haven't done a lot of vero effects projects yet (but plan to), then I would suggest the following approach:

(1) If you haven't done so already, make a Test Box.
(2) If you ignored step (1), go back to step (1)...
(3) Make each board and test them separately.  Debug if required.
(4) Using your breadboard as a test bed, try running the effects as you propose.  For example, if you want to run the Plimsoul into the reverb, try that configuration out.  Sometimes, there are unexpected interactions which may need correction (probably not in your case, but you never know).
(5) Plan out your off-board wiring very carefully.  How do you plan to switch the effects?  Probably want an independent  switch for each - make sure your wiring allows a common 9V supply to each effect, LED indicators, and proper grounding and bypass.

I personally haven't built a multieffects box yet, but I know that if I did, I would approach the build very carefully and methodically as there are numerous places where things can go wrong, for example your Plimsoul works perfectly on the Test Box, but when wired with the other effects it starts to oscillate unexpectedly.

You project sounds cool, so keep us posted on your progress!
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
ok I still odnt get whats a terminal box. maybe photos to example this ??
the Test Box sounds like a brilliant Idea.. I have done so far Vero projects that I can count on one hand.. luckly they are all fine.. a Green Rusian Big Muff, DBA IO overdrive and Grind Costume FX Tenebrion Reverb. I dont know how I didnt came across the test box threat before.. but better late then never !!
thank you all for the support and interest. Be sure I will update on this 3 in 1 project later in a seperate thread. on the meanwhile.. you can all check out the band who asked for it.. the guitarist is using original Plimsoul OD and DBA Fuzz War but I think the bass player wouldl ike to use these set of effects as well and have it customized from me to support and represent! awesome ain't it ?

https://heroicleisure.bandcamp.com/
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

rocket88
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Frank_NH
You can get terminal blocks at Radio Shack, along with everything else needed for the test box.  
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
The Plimsoul Fulltone OD is done.
it sounds great though Im having some high pitched beep kind of oscillation once the gain is above 3 o'clock.
I figure out there is some other parts I can use to maybe lower the baias of the OP amp or the transistor ?
Im still a noob so in basic - just letting me know how the oscillations are made would be some help or give me some lead of how to get rid of this.

Im using normal red LEDs not the bright ones they are 5mm as well would it makes sense to try 3 mm for diffferent results ? eventually I want to stick those LEDs outside of the box so once it's played it will glow like in the original effect but the 2 LEDs so it will look like eyes :)

thanks for your help,
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

rocket88
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I could be wrong, but I think this is one thats caused some isues with oscillation, and using a buffer takes care of it. I could be wrong, as I haven't built it yet, but it sticks in my mind as an issue, maybe it was Frank? See if putting a buffer in front will cure it.
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
As I said before... noob.
The word buffer came across my eyes about 1000 times since I started messing around with guitar effect circuits.
STILL - haven't experienced with it yet. So far I've only done signal flow of true bypass and that's about it.

Want to be kind and link me to a easy explanation + how to build it ?

thanks!
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
maybe buffer means that after the effect (board's output) you go into a buffer circuit (input of board) and the buffers output is the one that goes back to the 3PDT ? this way it's buffered ?
what buffer would you recommend to start with that would do the job  and be simple to build ?

thanks!
A.
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

Tune Tone
I want to add this circuit to a 3 in 1 Unit that I build. so I might just place the buffer betwwen the out of the last effect in teh chain (tenebrion reverb) to the outout jack... better or ?
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Re: Fulltone Plimsoul OD

rocket88
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tune Tone
no worries man. basically what a buffer does is present a high impedance to the guitar pickup and have a low impedance output drive with a gain close to unity. one of the easiest and best explanations i've found comes from jack deville, it's long but gives great analogies. here's his explanation:

'What's a buffer?  What's an impedance?  What's an internetz?
We've all heard about the benefits of a "buffer" and how fuzz pedals don't "like" buffers, right?  Your best buddy insists of having a buffer at the front of his pedalboard-- after his favorite fuzz pedal of course, and even recommends putting a buffer at the end of his pedalboard to "drive his cables" and "maintain his signal strength."  So, the question(s) is/are:  WHY do we want these buffers, and do we even need them at all?  Pop a pop, crack a beer, put on a record and lets'd debunk the mystery of the buffer and talk a little about impedance and how it relates to "buffers."

A guitar "buffer" circuit is generally (and I am making a sweeping generalization here) a high input impedance, low output impedance, unity gain current amplifier.  These terms may sound familiar, no?  The copy that follows this often goes something like this:  "Super high input impedance to preserve your signal strength," or maybe "... to prevent loading of your guitar pickups."  While both of these statements are true, this is only one small part of the bigger picture.  We gotta start by talking about impedance, after all, this is apparently what we are so concerned with.

A little about impedance
Just like its fraternal twin resistance (symbol "Ω") is applied to DC (direct current), impedance (symbol "Z") can be thought of as resistance to AC (that's alternating current).  So where the hell are you going, Jack?  Here's where:
Guitar pickups output an alternating current waveform, representative of the movement and tonality of the strings of the guitar.  Why would we care about the resistance of an input if it doesn't apply to the signal we're concerned about?  We wouldn't.  We are concerned about the impedance of the input.  Input impedance is, after all, the input's resistance to alternating current.

It may seem obvious:  we want low resistance, right?  Let the signal flow freely and powerfully, right?  Wrong.  As counter-intuitive as it may seem, we actually want high resistance; at least on the input of the circuit.  Why you may ask?  Lets take a look at what is going on and the situations that arise when a signal sees both high impedance, and low impedance.

Play this scenario out with me:
We have a signal coming out of our guitar.  Since we've got guitar pickups in our guitars, not nuclear steam turbines, generating the signal (current), we've got a small signal.  That is to say there isn't a whole ton of current backing our signal.  Its weak.  But it is strong enough to make our amplifiers work, and here's where it gets fun.

Lets say our guitar is connected to a circuit with a low input impedance.  The signal can flow in freely right?  Right!  But everything at its cost.  The signal flows so freely into the input that the input actually starts to put demand on the signal, making it even smaller!

Imagine your guitar cable is a hose carrying your signal.  There is a changing pressure in the hose.  This changing pressure is your signal.  The hose is connected to a big bottle, with contstant low pressure inside.  Lower pressure than what is in the hose.  Nature being natural, everything wants to seek equilibrium and enlightenment, so the pressure in the hose moves rapidly to fill the big bottle.  This lowers the pressure in the hose and begins to put a demand on whatever is supplying the pressure, as if to say:  GIMME MORE PRESSURE!
This is the "loading effect" we want to avoid, so to speak.  At least with a buffer, or current amplifier.

Now play this scenario out:
We have the same signal coming out of our guitar.  The same weak signal.
We connect our guitar to a circuit with a high input impedance.  Now the signal can't flow so freely into the circuit.  It would follow that we are just getting a weak little signal into our amplifier, right?  Well, you are right, but we don't need the whole thing.  In fact, we don't need any of the actual current.  All we need is the voltage; the change in pressure.  Not the actual pressure.
Because there is no decrease (loading) in the changing pressure in the hose, we can see the full change of pressure, or the full signal.

Hopefully, these examples help to illustrate why we want a high input impedance (or resistance to current) in our buffer circuit.

Lets look at output impedance now.
As you may suspect, output impedance is the resistance to current on the output of the circuit.  This one is a little easier to understand.
We're gonna look at both extremes (high and low output impedance) before drawing what would seem to be an obvious conclusion.

Lets say we have a high output impedance.  A quick translation of engineering terms means we have a high resistance to AC at the output of the circuit, which means only a small amount of current can come out of the circuit.  This behavior is similar to how our pickups work which, quite frankly, is not why we want a buffer in the first place.

Now lets say we have a low output impedance.  The translation says:  we have a low resistance to AC at the output of the circuit, which means LOTS of current can come out of the circuit.  That means the circuit can push whatever it needs to hard, and hard is good.  Ask your girlfriend.

So cool, Jack.  Now we understand a little more about input and output impedances, but what about bufferz!?  Okay.  Lets talk about buffers and why we do and do not need or want them.
A buffer, by definition, is an impedance transformation circuit.  In the guitar world, they can be loosely defined as current amplifiers.  They amplify signal strength (current), but ignore signal amplitude (voltage).  This is where the terms "unity gain buffer" and "strong signal" come into play when buffers are marketed.

So why would we want, or not want one, two, three, four, or more buffers in our guitar rig?
The answer lies in the common copy:  Stronger signal.

While it would be super cool to have a guitar tone strong enough to move a fucking locomotive, there are limits to how strong the signal can get without diminishing returns.  The biggest expense in a well designed guitar buffer is current or current draw.  That is how much power is required to make the thing work.  Lots of current coming out of the circuit may mean virile, well-endowed tone, but if a huge demand is put on the power supply (be it battery or outboard DC supply) we may limit the life of our power supply.  Furthermore, if we only need 1mA drive current, why supply 1A?  That additional 999mA of current is being unused and just adding to the heat generated by our circuit, and if we wanted more heat, we'd buy a space heater.  Not a guitar buffer, dig?

So what are some figures and "tech specs" we should look for when selecting a buffer?
Its best to think about our application and needs.
Lots of people will tell you that a guitar's output impedance is in the order of 500KΩ, well, I'm here to tell you that is bullshit and whoever told you that just doesn't know what they're talking about, but we'll save that explanation for another edition of Straight Jive.  Realistically, you're guitar's output impedance is somewhere between 10KΩ and 40KΩ with your volume and tone at maximum, but these figures change as you change the controls, pickup selection, etc. (innit fun how there are so many variables and considerations?).

There is a general rule of thumb when it comes to circuit interfacing in electrical engineering and it goes something like this:  for small signals, the driven circuit's input resistance (impedance) should be over one order of magnitude larger than the driver circuit's output resistance (impedance).  For those of use who don't use terms like "order of magnitude" and "sopping dripper" in our daily vernacular, this means the driven input resistance (impedance) should be >10x bigger than the output resistance (impedance) of the driver.

Lets look at a simple example:
If a given small signal source (i.e. your guitar) has an output resistance of 25KΩ, the safe bet is to have it drive a circuit with a 250KΩ  or higher input impedance.  Pretty simple, right?  25,000 x 10 = 250,000.  Add some weird greek symbols in the mix and we're fully fledged engineers, doing calculations and math and stuff.

So what's ideal?
Well, I can't say what is best for you specifically, but I think you'll find some pleasing results if you have a well designed circuit meeting these criteria:

Input Impedance:         500KΩ - 1MΩ
Output Impedance:      1KΩ - 10KΩ

What about buffers with "Super High Input Impedance for maximum signal integrity and strength?"
Everything at its cost.  Mega-super-crazy-extreme-ultra-tops high input impedance may be seductively alluring, but with high input impedance, comes high responsibility, grasshopper.  The higher the input impedance, the greater the sensitivity.  In short, this means as your input impedance gets ultra mega high, you will start getting more and more noise in the signal, and hey man, if noise is your thing, look no further."

now as far as building a buffer there's a lot to choose from. here's a link to the buffer list on the main page. you could use something like the JHS little black buffer, or klon buffer, or cornish buffer. they're all really small quick builds. also, under contributions there buffer found in boss pedals has a few layouts. any and all should work well.