Is there an interest for ready-for-transfer printed layouts

[Chris60601]

Just wondering if there is an interest perhaps for another sub where we can post and retrieve RFT layouts for those of us that would like to print our own PCBs


Cheers
Chris

[motterpaul]

Are you talking about providing already printed layouts ready for a person to iron onto a sheet of copperboard?

[tabbycat]

on a tangent, i'd like to find someone or some company (uk based) who could etch a full/half/quarter A4 (whatever is standard) of compiled pcb layouts for a (not prohibitve) fee.

i see lots of things (vintage synth mostly as none of that stuff seems to get to vero) for which there only exist diy pcb layouts. i could probably fit four-to-six of those kind of layouts on a half A4 sheet and that would do me for a few months of building. however, when i looked at places online that do pro pcb etching to order they are always cheap per unit, but with a huge minimum order up-front charge. so had given up on it.

i can drill and solder but the whole etching thing i don't want to get into. partly because my health is so bad atm (re concentration and dizziness, etc). and also because i'm renting, so obviously concerned about yellow stains in the bathroom/kitchen re ever getting my deposit back.

but if anyone out there who can do this stuff easily is feeling enterprising, i don't mind paying for that service.

on another tangent, once there is a pcb layout sub here the next step will be an eagle and osh park sub. then we will really have arrived at diy layout heaven.

[dexxyy]

If you can manage the transfer process I`ll etch it if you post it to me then I`ll post it back, no charge.

[Silver Blues]

Yellow stains might be a problem if you're using ferric chloride; try out hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide in a 2:1 ratio. (There's an instructable about it). Works quite well, is reusable and not quite as nasty.

[dexxyy]

Brilliant idea Chris, I`ve been using layouts from perf and pcb effects layouts amongst others (been doing a lot on pcb lately)
Are you talking about your own layouts or layouts sourced elsewhere because we would need to be sure and ask permission to use them here and give the appropriate credit.

[Chris60601]

Yup, that's exactly what I mean. More of a place to collect and store PCBs that a person can print and make if one wants.

They can be from original pedals (like the veros are) or if someone created a device and wishes to share, or even community created such as Rocket's etc.

I don't know what the legal side of that would be, but it would be nice to have a sub where we have that option.

[Chris60601]

Thanks dexxy!
Anything from anywhere or anyone!

[Beaker]

I agree. It would be a really useful addition to the site, for those that are equipped to make use of it.

I work in a Further Education College, and I am on friendly terms with the Electronic Engineering department. They are willing to do small amonts of PCBs for me, as it gives the students practical experience of fabricating PCBs.

[tabbycat]

dexxyy wrote

If you can manage the transfer process I`ll etch it if you post it to me then I`ll post it back, no charge.

many thanks for the offer, dexxyy. i haven't looked at the transfer process yet so not sure what is involved. but am without a printer atm so not an option at present. but if and when i get something i will be happy to pay you for your time and trouble.
i may have a screen printing option at home in the near future so maybe i could return the favour that way, re screened enclosures or something. all far away yet, but am working on it.

i was basically thinking along the lines of email a jpeg, pdf (whatever is needed) with a selection of pcb layouts arranged on it, and payment for whatever, and then watch the post box.

re the printer, don't even get me started on 'printer hate'. i'm bitter with it.

i bought a brand new epson (yeah i know now but i didn't then) about five years ago and it has put me off printers for life. there is more fluid in one of my sneezes than all of the cartidges combined, which cost a fortune each. tried to get around that by buying generics but that has made the damn thing stop reading any cartidges as 'compatible', even epsons own. at last reckoning (including original unit cost and replacement inks) i've probably paid about £1 for each colour print i've had out of it. and have wasted days and late nights of my life trying to work out why it can't do the only thing it is built to do.

so consequently have got to the point where i actually feel it is cheaper to print out stuff at my local library than try to run my own printer anymore.
have resisted smashing it to bits to date on the basis that maybe some epson-hating (we must be legion by now) code hack will find a way to write some open-source software so the world can reclaim their lives from epson cartridge hell. i hope they go bust if they haven't already.

but if i get another printer one day is laser or inkjet best for pcb transfer stuff?

[motterpaul]

My understanding is that LASER is what you want to use. Laser toner is actually little beads of a plastic material that is heated to make it melt onto the page. It is dry in the cartridge.

So, if you print it onto very glossy paper (I have seen people even use magazine sheets, because what is printed on the page doesn't matter) then you take the printed material and you use a hot iron to transfer that onto the copper that will be etched. Like a laser, it is the heat that transfers the toner - except in this case the idea is to keep the original design.

Laser printers are more economical in the long run (they cost more, but you get many more pages per cartridge cost than you do with inkjet). You can get a pretty cheap Black & White laser for under $200 these days, and the cartridge that comes with it usually lasts a couple years. Some people say you should go with a higher quality printer, though - one that lays down extra toner.

[Beaker]

Paul is right - you need a laser printer. An inkjet just won't work at all for PCB transfer purposes.

You also need a laser for acid etched enclosures too.

From what I understand, cheap lasers are not good, and you may be better off buying a used, ex-office machine, which are cheap and easily available in second-hand shops or on ebay.

[rocket88]

i've got an hp laser printer and it works great for this. it wasn't cheap, but it wasn't expensive either, i think i grabbed it on black friday for $350, and it was usually like &550. what i find using gloss paper is that in intricate designs even the parts that doesn't have any ink on it will stick to the enclosure, and when i work to get it off i end up taking some of the parts i want on. this could be my fault and overheating it/leaving the iron on too long. this is why i switched to the press n' peel. it's more expensive but unless i'm an idiot it works 95% of the time.

[Hozy31]

I bought this laser printer http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A9E486O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00 from Amazon and it is really good for toner transfer and it was only £104 (now up at £110). It only goes to 600dpi but that seems plenty for toner transfer. I also bought a cheap lamintor from Maplin's (http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-a3-hot-and-cold-laminator-a64lj) and together i get perfect toner transfer. I have used press n peel and glossy paper. I get better results with the press n peel but glossy paper can work just as well you just have to be a bit more careful when removing the paper.
Also i use the Edinburgh etch method were you add a small amount of citric acid to your Ferric Chloride which gives a much faster and cleaner etch using really small amounts applied using a sponge. You don't need to dispose of much as its good for lots of etching before it needs replaced. All done in a large tupperware box you can avoid any spills.

[tabbycat]

Hozy31 wrote

I bought this laser printer http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A9E486O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00 from Amazon and it is really good for toner transfer and it was only £104 (now up at £110). It only goes to 600dpi but that seems plenty for toner transfer. I also bought a cheap lamintor from Maplin's (http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-a3-hot-and-cold-laminator-a64lj) and together i get perfect toner transfer. I have used press n peel and glossy paper. I get better results with the press n peel but glossy paper can work just as well you just have to be a bit more careful when removing the paper.
Also i use the Edinburgh etch method were you add a small amount of citric acid to your Ferric Chloride which gives a much faster and cleaner etch using really small amounts applied using a sponge. You don't need to dispose of much as its good for lots of etching before it needs replaced. All done in a large tupperware box you can avoid any spills.

thanks for the advice and recommendations paul, beaker, rocket and hozy. much appreciated. i will scour the local freecycle and ebay listings for a working laser printer. i have a minimal-or-free budget really, illness has killed off my income, but notice working ones come up a lot on freecycle as businesses can update yearly and tax deduct. but i've just avoided all printers after the epson affair. traumatised. but will bear your points in mind when chosing.

is this the right kind of transfer paper?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Press-n-Peel-Transfer-Sheet-for-PCB-Poduction-/121656568293/item1c534be9e5
works out £6 per A4 sheet (don't know what A4 is in us/eu paper sizes). only need a sheet or two to start.

might try pnp first as it seems to leave less margin for error and technical fiddling. hozy, you make it sound too easy. too tempting.

may also be able to sweet talk the local copy shop into printing it out for me until i find a printer. sometimes sleepy places like the challenge of an odd thing. and a good use for their b-grade kit. when i was an art student the neighbouring print-shop used to keep a 'trasher' machine out the back for potentially troublesome printouts, and that old tank of a machine probably made more money from the local art students than the posh machines out front made from local businesses. it was a student loan magnet.

anyway, an A4 or mixed pcbs will probably do me until christmas re stomp/synth building i think.

shit, what am i getting into now...

[rocket88]

Yep you want the press I peel blue when you use a laser printer.