Lower gain less high end

[Marbles]

Hi there,

After finally having the BJF arctic fuzz and honey bee sound good, I have a basic question:

The Honey Bee sounds, a bit like the demo's i've heard, a bit too brittle for my taste. Also does it have a bit too much gain.
This is with my strat, the guy I will give it to as a present plays a Tele. With the tone pot set to the lowest it's fine, and the gain low its fine. It would be nicer to have a wider range of low gain and more low end.

Which values could I adjust to make it a bit fuller and less gain?

Thanks in advance!

[rocket88]

which honeybee did you build? the bearfoot version is a bit warmer then the BJFE, and i think it's a tad less gainy. i built the bearfoot one and love it with my tele, well it's an asat classic which is sort of a tele on steriods, but it sounds fantastic.

[Marbles]

Thanks for your reply!

I build the BJFE Honey Bee Layout 2.. It sounds good, but, a bit brittle? Like there is gain, but it's not mixed with the dry signal enough. Oh my lack of explaning things in a normal way haha.

Especially cause the arctic fuzz is a bit fizzy being a fuzz, I thought the honeybee would be nice as a low gain overdrive/booster. It does boost, but there is just a lot more gain than i hoped for. Plus not enough low end for just being an overdrive.

Maybe I made a mistake in my build? Although I must say that the demo's did not sound that full on youtube either (thought that was the quality of the clips).

Is there a component I could change or check?

Thanks!!

[rocket88]

take a look at the layout for the bearfoot version and compare the values. make the changes to the one you have to match the bearfoot and see how it sounds, and if that makes it more to your liking. let us know how it turns out.

[Muadzin]

The Honey Bee and too much gain?

Two things I would never have imagined being in the same sentence. If anything that sucker should have even more gain.

[Frank_NH]

I just looked at the schematic, and I would try removing the 1N4007 diodes to ground (D3 and D4) - they add clipping at high gain which may not be needed for a low gain OD.  You can also use a lower value for the gain pot (try 250K) to reduce the highest gain achieved by the op amp and provide a smoother sweep.  If you want to add bass, you can modify some caps at various points in the circuit, but I'd start with the diodes and lower pot value and see if you like that.  Good luck!

[Marbles]

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! Will definitely try those things!

Yeah, too much gain.. who would've thought..  I don't know how to describe it. The arctic fuzz is a bit 'fizzy' and I had hoped that the Honey Bee next to it would be a bigger contrast. Ofcourse, the characteristics are very different, but the Honey Bee in my build comes close to a distortion almost. It has that agressive vibe to it. I was expecting a bit more mellow/ just a bit of hair/grit which I really like in the Kalamazoo for instance.

If I compare the BJFE layout 2 to the Bearfoot I don't see that many differences. A few more common value resistors for the obscure ones won't make that much of a difference I think? A few have a higher value. I will try though! There is a lot of difference in some of the caps it seems though.. Any idea which one I should try first?

Is there a big difference in sound between the 2N5457 and the 2N5952? And has anyone an idea if I could swap IC's to test? I don't know how much they influence the characteristic of the overdrive in this circuit. I have some others lying around that I could check...

Will def. try the diodes and the pot, thanks!


As you can probably tell I'm pretty much a noob. Made the age old mistake of starting with building with not enough knowledge. So thanks for the help. After the 2 projects I'm finishing now, I will start with simple fuzzes on a breadboard, read more books and learn what the parts actually do. Until that time, please 'Bear'(pun intended) with me!
 

 

[rocket88]

There will be a difference between transistors, so if you got them just give them a try, also see what an IC change does. I doubt there an issue with the one you have, but it takes 2 seconds to do.

Sometimes small changes at specific point can make big differences. The artic shouldn't fizz, is it like a fizzy decay or just fuzzy overall?

[Marbles]

I will try that tonight, you're right, 2 seconds.. Could like another better.

The Arctic used to be very fizzy. Especially at low gain, the decay would fart out a bit. I removed the led from the top row. That got rid of the squeels. I then replaced the 100pf with a 330 pf. This got rid of the fizzy 'extra' notes. It sounds like a fuzz now. Just 'fizzy'. I have other fuzzes that sound like this too though. I think if I would plug my strat through my JH Dunlop fuzz face in my SF Twin Reverb it would be a bit fizzy too (it's not a recipe for a full sound I guess).


It's just that I worry a bit that if the fuzz should have more low-end and the overdrive should have more low-end.. I have a problem somewhere else? It sounds decent, just not as overwhelmed as I thought I would be. Ears were tired yesterday of fighting with a tremolo circuit last night, so I should give it a fresh test tonight.

I put both circuits on one vero, but divided by cutting a whole row in between. It's not connected to eachother anywhere. I just wired the effects seperate, except the wire from the 3DPT of the fuzz that would go to the Jack-output is wired now to the 3DPT of the HoneyBee where normally the input-Jack would go.

Could I post a clip? Maybe it's just a matter of taste..  

[Frank_NH]

"There is a lot of difference in some of the caps it seems though.. Any idea which one I should try first?"

If you want a tad more bass, try increasing the input cap from 47 nF to 100 nF or even 470 nF.

Also - In my experience in the DIY world, you'll come across some circuits that get lots of accolades and sound great in online demos but are disappointing as a DIY build.  For example, to me the OCD was just "meh" and the MI Audio Blues Pro was "yuck" (and I dismantled that one quickly).  You never know.  You can also end up modding circuits from "meh" into "awesome," and that happens here all the time.  Regardless of the outcome, it's a learning experience and eventually you'll be able to determine how to mod a circuit to your liking with only a couple of part substitutions.

The moral of the story?  Keep on building!  

[Marbles]

Thanks a lot for the encouraging words! Will do!

[rocket88]

Oh also, the best thing to do whenever something is off in a build just go and run a knife between the tracks just to make sure that you don't have any solder bridges that you can't see causing the issues. Also, remember that we all have different things we're looking for in effects, so you'll get use to having to mod.

[Marbles]

Haha thanks!
I did last night, proabably a bit too enthusiastically. My gf was affraid I attacked it out of pure frustration haha.  

[Marbles]

Sorry for the late reply guys, didn't have time to work on it. Did today though.

I removed d3 and d4. To my taste, a lot better. No more agressive overdrive, but a mild 'pushing tube amp'-grit. Because of the milder overdrive it doesn't sound as brittle anymore, so I can sort of live with the highs. Maybe change a cap later.

The problems started soon after. For some reason when I max the volume of the honey bee, the last sweep of the volume pot distorts a bit. Playing the fuzz and overdrive together gives a high pitched noise. Turning pots sound like tuning an old radio....

Could this be a grounding problem? I reheated and replaced all grounds before a few times and they pretty much all go to the input now.. Does that give problems?

Thanks in advance!

[Marbles]

Ok, replaced grounds. Did the trick. Well, kinda lost track to be honest. On my vibrochamp practice-amp had weird noises, on my Twin less. Changed things around, worked on my Twin.. have not tested on the vibrochamp. After so much trouble with this sort of afraid that it might be terrible tomorrow again. Put the diodes in again.. decided that without it it sounds great, but only with the gain fully open. Less than that, well, nothing changed much. So... put them back in. Did put 4001's in instead of 4007's. Shouldn't make any difference I understand, but for some reason the pedal sounds a bit more to my liking now. Maybe It's a solderjoint that needed reflowing which I did now. Anyways, thank you all for the help. Eventhough eventually I changed not that much, I have learned from your advice which I can use for future projects. Thanks for taking the time to help a beginner like me!

[Silver Blues]

Glad you got it sorted.

But this kind of thing makes me wonder if a little bit of blue threadlocker on the base of the jack threads might be a good idea. The part that actually makes the contact would be unaffected, and it may help prevent jacks from working themselves loose while keeping it serviceable if need be.

[rocket88]

Glad it's all good now. The diodes can make a difference, since they do have slightly different toward voltage. That's why even with led's red, green, and yellow diffused sound different, and even super brights will sound different. But, the important thing is it works, sounds good, and you're happy with it.  

[Frank_NH]

With these circuits, you never know what you'll like in the end, but experimenting with vero can be a pain (i.e. unsoldering, then soldering new components).  If a simple change doesn't do it for me, I will put the circuit aside and move on.  Something like the Honey Bee is fairly well known, so there may not be a lot to be gained from swapping in/out a lot of components.  However, one thing I do check all the time is the control pot sweeps (linear versus log versus reverse log), and I'll often change pot types to get the sweep I like.

Anyhow, glad you have it working!

[Marbles]

Thanks guys!

Never thought about that threadlock, good idea, thanks!

Ah I see, good to know they make a difference (especially cause I bought the ones I apparently prefer, 14001, in bulk haha).

The desoldering is a b*itch indeed, sigh. Especially for a beginner like me, you set out to do the nicest, neatest wiring job so far, only to frantically desolder things, rewire etc. The ol' rat's nest again soon.

Thinking of making a testrig soon. Just to have a bit of the wiring done already and only have to connect the circuit. Have to read into that though, cause I never quit understood how that worked..
I mean, the jacks and switch I understand, but for let's say a fuzz factory, you still have to wire all the pots I guess and preferably cut those wires to the same size as they will be in the enclosure, so there is no real advantage..

Or get all the wires to like a terminal and from that terminal with clips to the pots. Well, will read into that, will end up cleaner that way I'm sure. Will bother you in a new topic about that maybe later haha.

Thanks!