Moog Guitar Electronics 1977

[myonus666]

Hello,

I have a 1977 Gibson RD Artist that someone has removed the onboard effects made by Moog.  Gibson was kind enough to send me the schematic and production pictures of the missing board.  However,  It just seems a little more complicated than I anticipated,  and was wondering if there was anyone out there who would be willing to assist me in converting and consolidating this down to a manageable size vero layout board. to fit onboard cavity of my Guitar as originally intended. The parts are fairly simple,  but I just wanted some help.    I have seen people selling re-manufactured versions of this RD Bass on eBay ($300), or original part on ebay for $400+.  Its not that hard of a circuit (I think)   but never have i seen the Artist guitar version I have remanufactured or converted to layout and offered anywhere.

 I suppose I don't have much to offer except the opportunity to take the ground floor on this old Moog sound,  and stamp your name on a re-mod of this awesome device.   Any takers?





Thanks, and kind regards,

[myonus666]

the images shown are not mine, I got them from google search.  I have the original docs and pics from Gibson. will share if any interest develops.

Thanks again,

[rocket88]

Odds are not going to happen. The circuit is too big, and needs to fit properly in the cavity. If you really want the circuit you either needs a good PCB designed, or buy it on eBay or reverb. You also run into a big issue with the switch used to switch between the compressor & sustainer, which i haven’t found a replacement for. The other issue you’re going to have is that you need the original pickups as well they were designed by Bill Lawrence to work with the Moog circuit. If you don’t have them it’s not worth trying to get or make/use the Moog circuit.

Funny thing is, I actually have a 77 RD Artist bass that’s actually the only one that was made in white cause the original owner sent it back to Gibson to have it painted white cause thats what he wanted and it wasn’t offered. I’m in the process of fixing it up, and have all the electronics, which rare as could be since everyone threw them out cause they didn’t understand how it works.

[myonus666]

The original switches  I have these.  They were just disconnected from the board,  and left in the guitar. They are huge paddle switches with odd plates.  completely disconnected.  (What a shame) Obviously the person who hacked this up, didn't know what they were doing.  Or didn't have the time or care to do the conversion correctly.  As far as the pickups,  I have seen a lot of controversy who owned the patent on this 77 model.  And strangely enough-  the number I see most often is: PAT NO 2737842 -  but I doubt that is it since when I look up that # it doesn't match the year and production of the 77 Artist.  So Yes; that is going to be a challenge.  

When I look at the schematic/ and the pictures I have found on the internet,  I don't see anything special about these pickups except that they connect to the board- not the volume controls. AND that they are  2 wire pickups with a shielded ground. This does lead me to believe that there is  9v going to them.  Which would require special winding and engineering for sure.  Still trying to make heads n tails of the original Gibson Schematic.

Searching for others who have done the conversion back to original,  And also- seems like a lost cause.  

My hopes of hearing the original sound of this board, are surely doomed to fail.  And I only invested $120 for the guitar itself (most likely because its been hacked and modified).  Surely I can do something with all that cavity space.  since it will never be original.  It might as well be unique.

Thanks for the review Rocket88- Perhaps I should learn how to play guitar before I start resurrecting dinosaurs. :)

[myonus666]

Additional-  I just spoke to Gibson in Nashville.  and they said the model humbuckers were the Special Series VI (6).  No indication in the specs that lead to say they were active pickups.  The description says they were ceramic magnets. Non- active (but that is only assumed) because the field was blank....hmmm

I found another discussion that says the pickups were not active,  but the onboard board was.  That is what was requiring the 9v power supply.  I imagine this is incorrect too.  So honestly- back to the schematic for sure.  And try to decipher what is there.

Thanks again.

[rocket88]

trust me i've been down this road before i got my bass and spoke to gibson and people that have them. first off gibson is really useless with helping, providing info, and parts. i was lucky that i got a guy, his name is Bob, who actually remembered my bass coming in and knew the serial number, he was off by 2 numbers, and he emailed me stuff from their archives about the bass and such.

here's the deal with the pickups. they were designed by bill lawrence, who passed away in 2013 i think. they used INDOX IV magnets, which are no longer available and used by the military. there is little to no other info on them as bill lawrence never gave out his design. they were passive, and had very low output without the board, so most people that ripped out the board and just used the pickups passively usually dumped the pickups for something else, aftermarket or normal gibson humbuckers.

the board does come up every now and again on ebay, there was one recently for like $300, but i have never seen a set of stock rd artist guitar pickups. if you got the pickups you cant test them without the board, and without the pickups you really cant test the board. so really it puts you between a rock and a hard place.

i was lucky that the original owner that parted his out i got the board, the bass, and the plastic parts. i also was planning on upgrading all the original hardware cause the original was really shitty, so i didn't need them. i had to hunt for a 6 months before a set of the bass pickups popped up for sale. the guy wanted $400, but i talked him down to $100 cause they were untested.

as for what you can do with yours and fill the space. personally i would get a set of some badass humbuckers to throw in there, wire it up like normal with a position switch. you could add something like a good heavy fuzz, like a black acid/meathead in the cavity that you can switch on or off with the 2nd switch. if you're really dying to get the stock electronics you can keep an eye out for them and grab them, and eventually put it back to stock. if you decide its too much of a project i'd gladly take it on

[myonus666]

Your absolutely correct.  Putting all this $$ into a $120 guitar, to get what?? I wonder if by analyzing the Moog circuit I could design a comparable signature. And at least get the freaky sound that everyone hated.  Most likely with less components in less space.  Then add a Rawhead Big muff (onboard version) and call it.  You mentioned some really bad ass pickups.  So here is what I found:  The 490 T (R) seem to be the closest (by far) comparable to the Lawrence pickups still mnfg. by Gibson.  They are about $99-$140 each.  that's do-able.  I might as well get a Bigsby , to add some tremolo dynamics.  ($150)- do-able.

The Push:  designing a comparable layout of compression/  expansion that emulates the Moog design (I assume the expansion is probably a Rangemaster on steroids- or..... something that spreads the dynamics like a chorus? The compressor seems easy enough; unless Moog had some other trickster idea up his sleeve.  The idea of the multi-position switch/ leads that he was working with in/ out phase selection- which would also reinforce why everyone hated the RD. (it was overly complicated instrument to navigate) Could the compressor be more-than just a compressor??  The wiring schematic (still wrapping my head around it)  seems to gravitate towards tone dynamics (maybe they just called it compressor- because it sounded better than "dynamic tone control"  

 I can only speculate- without further research-  maybe I can find someone with an original RD Artist that has posted a YouTube video for audio samples?  

I don't think hope is not abandoned.  I have a unique treasure in my closet; and somewhere along the timeline I suspect I will find answers.

This discussion is paramount; and thank you for offering such great ideas to get my brain moving.

Kind regards,