Muff flavours

[Marbles]

Hope this clickbait title works! ;)

But seriously, I have been really getting into muffs lately. When I was young I hated them, but maybe I just didn't know how to play with them. Just finally finished the v7 1994 green muff with KT3102em's after I was already a big fan of the opamp muff, I like this better.

So.. Next up would be the Cival War one... or not? Is there a lot of difference between the 2? I know from the kitrae website that they were a lot alike, but that there was a difference. I hear it in demo's as well.

Now I'm not the best vero-reader, but if I compare the Civil war layout to the Russian v7, I hardly see a difference.
It could be my eyes, but is the only difference between the 2 that the ceramics are 430p vs 470p and there is a resistor in the top left that's 2k7 instead of 2k?


That does not sound like it would make that much of a difference as I hear in comparisons. I could be wrong ofcourse. I understand early big muffs are not that well known for their consistency that could explain the difference?


This doesn't seem like it would be worth buillding, but am I wrong?

[rocket88]

Well it could be based on the inconsistency in the old builds, but that little cap does make a bigger difference then you think. Is it enough to make a huge difference between the two layouts, idk cause I haven't built a civil war yet, and the green Russian I built has different values then the one on the site because it's based on one I play and loved.

Onto the electronics explanation. The resistor in question being lower will raise the gain on Q4 by altering the bias, so little differences can mean big changes. The caps in question are feedback caps, and the lower the value the more highs come through. So the smaller cap between the green and civil war can make the civil war clearer sounding.

You might want to go for a different era muff, like a ramshead, triangle, or violet. There will be a much more drastic difference between the two.

[Marbles]

Great! And thanks for explaining. I think this might mean I have to build them all :)

It's good to know, I always thought a few pf wouldn't make a difference. But in key positions they can. Thanks!

[PMowdes]

Given that the layout remains largely unchanged through the various iterations i guess you could use the same pcb and just swap different components no?

http://www.bigmuffpage.com/Big_Muff_Pi_versions_schematics_part1.html

If that's the case i have some gerber files for the green russian if anyone wants them?  i have 12 boards made and delivered for about $12 from elecrow.

[Travis]

The dude that I got my tall font Sovtek Muff from also had a "civil war" Muff and said they sounded identical. As Zach said the differences are subtle but will have a slight effect. Overall with the adjustability of the pots and everything most people wouldn't notice a difference

If I play my black and green Sovtek Muffs side by side, they sound the same. The civil war and green Muffs had pots oriented in all different directions which makes it difficult to visually compare settings with another pedal that has the standard 7-5 o'clock pot rotation. For that reason it's hard for me to say they sound identical with controls at noon etc but if I set the controls by ear to match there seems to be no discernable difference

You're right that your PCBs could be used to build various Muff versions with component value changes. What program did you use to create the gerber files?

[PMowdes]

Travis wrote

The dude that I got my tall font Sovtek Muff from also had a "civil war" Muff and said they sounded identical. As Zach said the differences are subtle but will have a slight effect. Overall with the adjustability of the pots and everything most people wouldn't notice a difference

If I play my black and green Sovtek Muffs side by side, they sound the same. The civil war and green Muffs had pots oriented in all different directions which makes it difficult to visually compare settings with another pedal that has the standard 7-5 o'clock pot rotation. For that reason it's hard for me to say they sound identical with controls at noon etc but if I set the controls by ear to match there seems to be no discernable difference

You're right that your PCBs could be used to build various Muff versions with component value changes. What program did you use to create the gerber files?

I used Eagle, I had some time off work so I taught myself how to use it.  I've heard it's rubbish compared to some other programs but i've managed to make a few decent boards.

[rocket88]

just to add to what travis said about comparing the different muffs. when i was in cali during my honeymoon in july we had another fuzzfest and played a bunch of different muffs, including my made russian green, his actual russian green, and his russian black big muff. there really are subtle, and i mean subtle differences. you'll notice it if you're really listening carefully, but we were able to get them all to sound like 95-98% the same when fiddling with the settings. really was a shock, probably more to me then him.

do i still have my preferences for one over the other? yep. would i go crazy building all the different variants? yep. i feel like big muffs are like pokemon, got to catch them all. i'll see myself out now after that comment.

[Muadzin]

Marbles wrote

Hope this clickbait title works! ;)

But seriously, I have been really getting into muffs lately. When I was young I hated them, but maybe I just didn't know how to play with them. Just finally finished the v7 1994 green muff with KT3102em's after I was already a big fan of the opamp muff, I like this better.

So.. Next up would be the Cival War one... or not? Is there a lot of difference between the 2? I know from the kitrae website that they were a lot alike, but that there was a difference. I hear it in demo's as well.

Now I'm not the best vero-reader, but if I compare the Civil war layout to the Russian v7, I hardly see a difference.
It could be my eyes, but is the only difference between the 2 that the ceramics are 430p vs 470p and there is a resistor in the top left that's 2k7 instead of 2k?

That does not sound like it would make that much of a difference as I hear in comparisons. I could be wrong ofcourse. I understand early big muffs are not that well known for their consistency that could explain the difference?

This doesn't seem like it would be worth buillding, but am I wrong?

Like you I didn't like the Muff at first. It doesn't help that they're so scooped so you really need an amp with a lot of mids, or install a Skreddy style mid switch. That switch should be mandatory on all Muff builds. I sure did on mine.  Nowadays I can't think of playing without a Muff.

Thanks to that Kitrae site I must have built every EHX schematic that's on there. If I want too I still could do most of the muff clones, besides the Skreddy muffs I haven't delved much into that section yet, but I'm not building much of anything lately. Maybe someday. You sure are right that EHX wasn't very consistent in their production. If a modern day pedal builder would just solder whatsever currently available in its inventory on its board they would get called lots of names, none of them nice. But people seem to have accepted this from EHX. And it has given us some awesome sounding variations. I really like the all ceramic caps Triangle and the Violet Ram muffs.

[Marbles]

Haha, thanks guys. I will build them all too I guess.

What I like about Muffs is that, even though they have a higher parts count, they sound good. For some reason, my experiments with tonebenders or fuzz faces just don't work out that great. Different transistors,  the PNP thing, powering with a battery wiring doubts. I dunno, did not find a combination that has impressed me. That's all on me ofcourse, maybe that made me like those fuzzes less?

Anyway.. :)

So the key muffs would be: OpAmp, Green Russian, Violet and early Ram's head?

[rocket88]

Add triangle to their and I think you've got the major basses covered. But it's crazy how within those generations the number of variations is insane and they will sound drastically different. I think I have 4 different ramshead muff muffs. In fact I traced one that apparently according to kitrae he knows of 3 of them.

[Muadzin]

Marbles wrote

Haha, thanks guys. I will build them all too I guess.

What I like about Muffs is that, even though they have a higher parts count, they sound good. For some reason, my experiments with tonebenders or fuzz faces just don't work out that great. Different transistors,  the PNP thing, powering with a battery wiring doubts. I dunno, did not find a combination that has impressed me. That's all on me ofcourse, maybe that made me like those fuzzes less?

Anyway.. :)

I've never built a tonebender but the fuzz face is a finicky beast because its so dependent on the right transistors. Germanium transistors really are unique and finding the right ones a friggin' nightmare. Which is why I stay away from them. Transistor choice does influence the Muff, but not so much. It's a very forgiving circuit with changes in the caps and resistors in the crucial places exerting a far greater influence.

So the key muffs would be: OpAmp, Green Russian, Violet and early Ram's head?

Thing is though, there is no early Ram's Head, no Triangle or 3rd Version muff. The only difference between them is the enclosure. There are probably dozens of variations for the Triangle era, same for the Ram's Head era. Not even Kitrae has traced them all. You can't pick one and say, now I have a Triangle muff. You might miss the one that would have been THE ONE for you. That's why the only possible course to find out is to build them all.

Also give the Skreddy Muffs a look. They're probably even better then the real thing.

[Beaker]

If you want a little light relief from the large boards, try building the two knob Montarbo Sinfoten that was posted up a while ago. Basically a very early Big Muff stripped right down to it's underwear. Well more of a thong than underwear - there's nothing left that isn't essential.

It's an absolutely cracking pedal as well - just screams Husker Du.

[Sensei Tim]

Coda Effects has a great page that summarizes a lot of the popular mods


I just built a muff for someone and used a lot of thee mods on that pedal.


http://www.coda-effects.com/2015/11/big-muff-mods-and-tweaks.html?m=1

[Marbles]

@Muadzin Ah ofcourse the Skreddys.. damn, it's going to be a busy month haha. I do love the Skreddy pedals, and have lots of respect for the guy.
I know the 2n5088s are recommended as substitutes, as well as in the muffs, but that kept me away from some of the builds, are those the best option? I know: try and see what you like :D But compared to the original, they are the most alike?


@Beaker: Thanks! The demos sound awesome! Will def. build one.  I'm ok with the big layouts too though. I really like how the muff layouts are done, and they start to feel familiar haha.

@Sensei: I will check those out, thanks! It's an interesting world to dive into.. But man, the versions and changes are endless :D