On the subject of home recording

[Heath]

Chris60601 wrote

So Heath. Some questions if ya don't mind. Spent time at your site and really enjoyed your demos. As I'm just getting into home recording, what software would you recommend.
Ideally as cheat as possible (open source maybe) as I'll use a sim cab and DI into my lappy.
Any advise really will be muchly appreciated if possible while dodging an attack of some rabid Ewoks I imagine😁

Edit: I will be happy to move this to a new thread if we feel we'll get mileage out of it or perhaps via email.

Wow, man, first of all I'm glad you enjoyed them.  

My secret... and this is embarrassing... was being flat broke and having to stay with my parents in Picayune, MS where there's just nothing of interest.  I mean, it's pretty enough, but they had two bookstores in the entire town.. a Jesus store and a Porn store.  

I really did most of those in the worst possible way.  My equipment for almost all of them was as follows:

- A cheap Ibanez RG270, stock with some of the world's shittiest pickups (don't get me wrong, I love this guitar and still have it, though highly upgraded these days)
- A $9 Labtec PC microphone
- A cheap Crate amp with a 10" speaker and built-in effects (before built-in effects sounded good)
- An Alesis HR-16 drum machine from 1987

(and later Reason 3.0) for drums

(Seriously, look at that shit...)








- A Gateway laptop, Pentium4 processor, if I recall.
- Cakewalk Home Studio 2004

(Aight, pardon my typing, it really sucks... it's 2:30am and I'm groggy as hell)

I've only owned a bass starting about 2 years ago.  Consequently at the time of recording those demos I was trying keyboards for bass and also a Boss OC-2 pedal, but I was so consistently unsatisfied that you can tell I tried to bury it in the mix as much as possible.  

All effects you hear are either the ones in Cakewalk or that crappy amp.

I had no clue how to go about recording anything into that laptop except via that PC microphone.  On "Make Me Blue" I actually recorded vocals through that crate amp into that PC mic which is why the vocals have so much annoying flange and reverb on them.. since I recorded them that way, instead of adding effects post recording, I was stuck with it :D

Just a quick anecdote.. the first multi-tracking I ever tried was taping part of the recording head of a cassette tape player and getting 2 tracks, so I have a history of doing things the Caveman way.

I'm anything but an expert, so I want to make sure I don't even come close to so much as hinting that I am.  However, if you listen to "Untitled" you'll notice that (not to toot my own horn) the guitar sound is sweet as honey.  Honestly, I'm my own worst critic, but I managed something inexplicable considering the equipment I was using and my own lack of skill.

All I can really say is that I was absolutely determined to put down something listenable.  I tried to be realistic about how something recorded in my parents' guest bedroom on shit equipment would come out, but at the same time I was quite brutal with myself and would spend an extraordinary amount of time on tiny details.

I personally hate adding effects after recording, but it does give you a lot more control over things and it's possible that going against my intuition made for a better recording.  A lucky accident :)

But, seriously, single-minded obsession did more to make listenable demos than the equipment, but even that could not save me from being annoyingly out of tune on "Cinnamon Angel."  "Cardboard Jesus" is a perfect example of what happens to a possibly decent song when you don't obsess on making it sound right (it sounds like poo).


So, after being so long winded:

The best advice I can offer is:

- Record it as many times as you have to until you are honestly happy with it.  The walk away and come back and make sure you still feel it's good enough.  There are so many times I should have done that.

- Miced amps can really record well.  Turn off fans and AC and just sweat it out if you have to.  I'm new to DI recording, so I'm totally ignorant about it.

- Vocals are a bitch to record well... just a nightmare.  If you are going to record vocals, be ready to play with mixing for a long time before they are going to sit naturally with everything else.  Just my experience.

- Cakewalk is expensive.  I didn't pay for mine.  I'm not proud of it .  I bet you could find an older copy for a decent price on ebay, and it would work just fine.   I hear Garage Band does an admirable job for a much friendlier price.  ProTools is a son-of-a-bitch.  I'm thinking of trying out Presonus Studio One, as the newer Cakewalk Sonar has too damn much I don't use so I stay perpetually confused.  

I don't really know of any truly decent free multi-track recording software.. maybe Audacity?  Never used it, but I hear the name a lot.  Sorry, not super helpful there.  I'd definitely try a "Lite" version of this or that software and then hunt for a cheaply priced older copy on Ebay.  You should be able to find something more than sufficient for under $100.  Considering how vital the recording software is to actually capturing what you're playing, it's worth it.  

Also, if you're going to record into a stock sound card/intergrated chipset, it CAN produce really good recordings, but it will take more patience.  I used to have to manually scoot tracks around on that old Gateway laptop when the recording would delay and even had to manually adjust a recording chunk where it had lagged from time to time.  Stock PC audio hardware is much better these days as is the recording software.  If you've go a few extra bucks, though, a new soundcard with can make things easier and more fun.

[boratto]

Bro just a reminder, i recommend to all people here use Reaper. Fast, tiny, cheap and PROFESSIONAL

[induction]

I just listened to your demos. Very nice. You have a great voice and real talent for songwriting. Keep it up.

[Chris60601]

That's right. I remember seeing Reaper. Looks promising. Now Cakewalk does offer some decent pricing on a monthly basis for a year. That too might be worth looking into.
Isn't Garage Band just for Apple products?

[rocket88]

Awesome write up Heath.i figured I would add what I use. I use is the scarlet 2i2 interface and reason software. What's nice about this is I do all the mixing in reason, and keep the footprint down to just the single interface. I can either plug directly in or mic everything, so for my amps I use a sennheiset e609, and for vocals I have a blue spark and a few different vintage mics that are just awesome and give a vintagey lofi sound to your vocals.

[Frank_NH]

I haven't recorded for a while (hope to get back to it this year).  I am anything BUT pro when it comes to recording songs and tracks, and I do it for my own amusement.  Having said that, here's what I have used:

(1) For recording, storing songs I use my trusty HP Windows 7 (tower) computer.  Nothing special, and I use a plain soundcard.  Need to get a more professional soundcard at some point as that will help with the one thing that plagues most home recording (at least mine) - noise!  

(2) An inexpensive Yamaha 10 channel mixer.  I use this as the interface between the mics, drum machine and other inputs and the computer.

(3) An old BOSS DR-5 drum machine.  I play it "live" with my fingers!  You can also get great drum software nowadays.

(4) Various dynamics mics for micing acoustic guitar and vocals.  You can also mic your live amp for electric guitar, but...

(5) ...I have an Digitech RP1000 pedalboard which has amp models and I can use that very effectively for recording guitar and bass with effects.  The RP1000 gets patched directly to the mixer via a balanced cable.

(6) For software I have used the freeware Audacity.  It's not as full featured as other software but it gets the job done and I know it well.  I can even go into a track now and snip out wrong notes!    I have tried other non-freeware and I really like Mixcraft.  Reaper is good too and there are many others.

When I record a song I usually lay down the rhythm guitar part first (perhaps with a click track to keep time).  I then put basic drums over that, then bass, electric lead guitars, organ or synth if the mood strikes me, and then finally vocals.  I will often put down three tracks of drums since I'm not playing a real kit.  And I agree with Heath that vocals are a pain because I don't like my voice and wished I sounded like John Lennon...

[Heath]

borrato
I'll definitely check out Reaper.

induction
Thank you!  It's been a while and I actually have some decent equipment now.  Sometimes I think being broke and barely having anything to record with made me more motivated to do it.

Chris60601
They make Garageband for PC/Windows as far as I know.

rocket88
It's funny... I'm a linux system admin for about 200 servers, yet when it comes to recording software I go brain dead.  I've got Cakewalk Sonar and it's just plain out too much for me.  Overwhelming.  I use Reason for drums, which is funny because that's only one small function of it, but the drums tend to sound a lot more "real" than most stuff I've used.  I also seem to have a mental block when it comes to mixers

Frank_NH
More often than not, lately, I'll be testing out a new pedal I've built and I'll end up playing something interesting as I'm doodling around.  I'll grab my Labtec pc microphone and pull up windows Sound Recorder (yep, ghetto paradise) just to capture the idea so I don't forget.  If I use some "invented" chords, I'll usually toss those into a text file with the same name as the audio recording and throw them in my Dropbox folder to come back to later.

Then when I come back to it later I'll try to elaborate on it, then add some lyrics or rob some that I wrote previously.. try to establish a chorus verse structure (or not, as the feeling dictates).. occasionally a bridge will pop into my head, but that's usually the more difficult part for me to come up with as I'm obsessive about it differentiating yet smoothly flowing with the rest of the song.  

Then I'll start programming a drum track, play a bit, program some more, play a bit, until I've got a completely fleshed drum track I can play along to.  I throw that drum tack in Cakewalk and then start recording the guitar(s).  After that I just listen for a while and try to come up with a bassline that does more than just hold the bottom rootnotes.  I like the bassline to "play" a bit without dominating things.

Then come the vocals, which are not at all fun to do.  I usually create the harmonies and backing vocals on the fly as I find I'm more creative at those times.
-------


So to update the info I originally posted, my primary equipment and such at this time:

- A variety of guitars now, so I can spend less time trying to force a particular guitar to sound a certain way.
- Cakewalk Sonar (soon to try some other software)
- Bugera Vintage 22 tube amp
- Several cab sims I haven't tried out yet.. I may use them, I may not.
- A couple of direct boxes I've built, again, I haven't really tried them out yet, but the Red Box I'm building seems very interesting as it more or less plugs into your Amp in place of the speaker to capture the character of your amp... I think.  I'm not sure.  This stuff makes me feel very stupid.
- An M-Audio USB interface which intimidates me because I am a caveman.
- Reason 4.0 because it was cheaper than newer versions.
- A Shure SM57 for vocals and amp miccing.  Again, I'm a caveman and know little about microphones and this one is supposed to be some kind of workhorse that does decently at recording almost anything.  "Og make sound into black thingy!!"
- For acoustic stuff I have a lovely Ovation mid-bowl and a Black Takamine dreadnaught for completely acoustic/micced recording.
- A shitload of pedals.

I've been collecting drink carriers to build a ghetto-fabulous "sound chamber" for recording vocals...



I'm getting there!


I need to get a pop/hiss filter.  I would make my own but I keep forgetting to buy pantyhose at the store.  It's not something that usually shows up on my shopping list.

[Frank_NH]

The great thing about having a home recording studio is that if a song idea pops into your head, you can quickly grab a guitar and record a demo track, then come back later and either re-record it or embelish what you have.  I have a huge number of these "demo" tracks on my hard drive.  Some have gone nowhere while others have evolved into completed songs.  BTW songwriting is one of the most creative things you can do and I have enjoyed it since I was a kid recording "sound over sound" tracks into an old cassette tape machine!!  (I still have some of those old recordings laying around...)

BTW - as for mics, I've been collecting 800 series Sennheiser mics from eBay.  They are excellent quality and can be had for $40 - $80.  I also have a AKG condenser mic.  I want to get a SM57 though for amp micing at some point...

[induction]

Heath wrote

induction
Thank you!  It's been a while and I actually have some decent equipment now.  Sometimes I think being broke and barely having anything to record with made me more motivated to do it.

Yeah. That's how it works for me, too.

[Vince]

I use Reaper and I've always been very pleased with it. I also use EZDrummer for 'Tha beatz' man... neither of which I paid for, either...... in my defense It was dangled there like a carrot so i downloaded that sucker!...

[Chris60601]

Heath wrote

Chris60601
They make Garageband for PC/Windows as far as I know.

Actually - I'm checking out MixCraft 7. It's supposed to be Garage Band-like and is priced modestly (I think I recall is being like 19.00 a month for 6 months).

Unrelated but not, I like seeing that more vendors are using the monthly installment process.
Makes it easier for us working types with a family.

Cheers
Chris

[negativefx]

YUP.  Reaper is by far the best DAW in my opinion.  I've used Pro Tools and Sonar and see no reason to pay their ridiculously high license costs when Reaper is $60 and works great.

[motterpaul]

Since recording engineer was actually a big part of my musical career I have a fair amount of experience. I started by opening an 8-trk demo studio in Hollywood, CA in 1976. I graduated to working fulltime in a 24-trk analog studio when I moved to Dallas in 1980. Most of my Dallas work was demos and albums for small time bands, church groups, etc. But I had chances to record every kind of music from big bands to black gospel church choirs, bluegrass, southern rock, country, punk, R&B.... For a mic, I purchased a Neumann U-67 back in 1980 for $1450. I felt I had overpaid at the time, but I knew it would go up in value and I would have a great mic in the meantime. I used it as part of my jobs working in studios for the next few years.

I moved back to Hollywood in 1983 and secured a job in a 24-trk where I got to work on TV show soundtracks, movies scores, tons of demos, a few records, click-tracks for live shows, etc. I have recorded many great "studio pro" drumsets and other instruments which has helped developed my ear for recording tones.

I quit working in studios in 1983 when I got a job offer on a top cruise ship as a stage manager. It was a tough decision, but I chose to see the world while I was young and figured I could come back to recording. But a year later I went into running a live music club instead and I never worked in studios as a pro again (except a few sessions in NYC in the 1990s).

In the late 80s my personal home studio was a 1/2-inch 8-trk Tascam reel to reel with a 16-channel board. I made a ton of demos on that format, many I still have transferred to proTools.

I LOVED those Alesis HR16 drum machines and used one until I completely wore out the pads. I do not care so much for the newer SR16 modules because of the way they treat the hi-hats - long story. But if I could find a working HR16 I would buy it - those things were great. And just BTW: I was lucky to work with some of the original Simmons drum machines (as used on Steely Dan Gaucho) back in 1982.

Here is a song from my home studio 1988: hr16; guitar through a Scholz Rockman: https://soundcloud.com/paulmotter/flying-1


I quit playing music in the late 80s until early 2000s, so when I decided to take up recording again I had to learn digital. So I chose to go with Protools since it was the industry standard. I started in 2004 with PTLE 6 and a Digi002 console (not rack).  I eventually got up to 8.05 (LE). It ran on a Pentium Pro with 1GB ram. Surprisingly, I could make fairly large sessions.

But last year I bought an Avid 11-rack which comes with ProTools 10. I also got a Digi-003 console (combination control surface interface). I priced out a new computer to run PT10 (ProTools is very hardware sensitive, if you want to run it on Windows you almost have to build a computer by hand) I realized the new state of the art is i7, 32 GB ram, Win 7. Total cost of parts would have been $1700, but I found someone selling one he had hand-built on eBay and I won it for under $800. (He was migrating to MAC - but his computer works perfectly for me).

Here is a song recorded on my new ProTools setup: https://soundcloud.com/paulmotter/bad-girl-new-mix-protools-10-1

Last year I finally sold the Neumann U67 for $7000. I replaced it with a hand built Pearlman (retail $2500, I got it for $1250) - same size capsule as the U-67, very similar sound.

ProTools is great, tho I have heard a lot of good things about Reaper. My theory on DAWS, however, is that they all do most of the same things, and it is a matter of picking one and learning it. people like me who know ProTools have discussed Reaper and agree it seems somewhat confusing. The manual is full of terminology that is proprietary to Reaper. (But a Reaper user might say the same about ProTools).

One DAW I have seen and found very intuitive is Studio One. I was able to fire it up and start using it without reading a single thing in the manual. ProTools was admittedly hard to get started, but once I got it it got easier.

But if you don't want to use a DAW and just want to get started recording, you can't beat the Zoom R16 which records on SD cards. Used, about $299 and you can record up to 8 trks simul and 16 all together. You can do pre-mixes to free up tracks, and mix down to the stereo "master" track connected to the master fader. You can also plug a guitar straight in and use the onboard modeller for amps/speakers/ efx. You can take the SD card out, plug it into a computer and import the tracks directly to a DAW. It comes with Cakewalk (As I recall) but I used ProTools. It uses standard 16-bit/44k wav file format.

For my drums, I use a newer Alesis SR16 to write the drum part, but I use it to trigger Addictive Drums samples on my tracks (it will do this in real-time or you can record a midi track off of the SR16 and just use the AD plugin to play the track).

Anyway - I can talk about recording a lot so I am trying to keep this short...

[motterpaul]

Here is a guy I recorded a LOT in Texas, Buddy Whitington (in the back), except he was in a band called "Rio" with a friend of mine named Mark Ballew. Now he plays with John Mayall and is a well-known blues guitarist. I just found this picture just now - lots of great memories, the band (Rio) were some of my best friends there.

[Frank_NH]

Great info Paul.  My home recording setup is just good enough to yield reasonable recordings so I don't obsess about having very expensive gear or DAW softeare.  However, one thing I want to work on is ambient noise levels.  When I turn on a mic and listen to a quiet room, there is usually a noticeable, low level white noise "hiss" in the recorded sound.  This compares to an electric guitar going from a multi-effects pedal with amp models directly into the computer, which is typically noise free.  I've experimented with post-recording noise reduction via DAW software filters, but that is usually unsatisfactory.  Anyhow, better cables and balanced connections would be start.

[motterpaul]

Frank, on noise lets just double check a couple of things. If you are getting ANY white noise the problem is most likely impedance mismatches. Audio equipment at the mic level is made for low impedance balanced cables. Most mic cables are XLR, and most mixers have XLR inputs.

I would not use any mic for recording except a balanced XLR mic plugged into a good mic preamp or interface.

Balanced = two leads (+ and - ) and a shield tied to ground. Neither lead is tied to ground, only the shield. For connectors you use either XLR or TRS 1/4"

High impedance mics (and guitars) have 1 lead and a shield, and the shield is also the ground. Low impedance cables can carry signal much farther without noise, but they are not good at conducting the ideal signal generated by guitar pickups. Pickups work best with high impedance, so guitars often do not sound good plugged directly into mic inputs - they sound clean, but have no drive at all.

Read up on basic mic to mixer gain structure. A mic is a passive device (similar to a guitar, but low impedance), most have either a small transformer or are powered (condenser) to create enough signal to travel along a cable. Think in terms of dB as you would see on old recording consoles. Most mics have a nominal level of about -40 dBu. The first thing you need to do is to raise the signal coming off the mic before it hits the mixer. Older (better) mixers (Neve) had built-in mic pre-amps with transformers first followed by a small pre-amp. The goal was to get the level up to "line" level ( 0 dB ).
Today, as we know, many mic pre-amps are external devices. I could go on about the marketing benefits of breaking out every little component this way, but thats another discussion.

A good mic plugged into a good pre-amp (either external or in a recording interface) should be dead quiet (in terms of hiss or hum). If you are trying to recording just through a sound card what you probably need is a good interface like something from Focusrite. If you want to record a guitar, the best bet is to use a mic (SM57) on a guitar cabinet, with the mic plugged into an interface. Alternatively, you can plug the guitar into a device made for recording, such as the Avid 11-Rack. Companies like Palmer make many great devices, like boxes where you can take the speaker output of a high gain amp and plug it straight in to a recording system.

Another thing you can try is recording the guitar with a dry sound and "re-amping" it with guitar software like Amplitube, but this is actually a pretty difficult way to go. You have to deal with problems like latency while you are playing, and it doesn't sound as "real" as they say.

I definitely recommend a good guitar recording processor or miking an amp instead.