Patch Cables

[inefficiency]

Hey guys.

Seeing as we're all talking pedals here, I figured talking about cables is pretty relevant as they're obviously an important part of the equation.

I've been looking at upgrading my patch cables for a while, but have been skeptical of all these solderless kits and whatnot you can get that cost £50 or whatever just for some jacks and cable.

Apart from the cost and whatnot, I've also heard that a lot of touring musicians that perhaps don't have careful roadies or people that change their pedals a lot frown upon them because the more you move the cables about the more likely they are to fail due to the solderless design.

My plan was to simply order a bunch of "pancake" connectors or similar and a bunch of the standard instrument/microphone cable from Bitsbox or somewhere and make a bunch of my own for much cheaper.

My main question is; What is the deal with high quality and "low oxygen" cables? Will this cheap instrument cable from Bitsbox be just as good as the apparent "low oxygen copper" cables that the likes of Lava, George L, Planet Waves and these other makers of patch cables claim to use?

I think the benefit of having soldered cables vs solderless is obvious, but I just want to know if there are any drawbacks or things to bear in mind when doing this, as I'd like these cables to last a very long time.

[Beaker]

"My main question is; What is the deal with high quality and "low oxygen" cables? Will this cheap instrument cable from Bitsbox be just as good as the apparent "low oxygen copper" cables that the likes of Lava, George L, Planet Waves and these other makers of patch cables claim to use?"


It's just marketing guff to convince fools to part with considerable amounts of money. I'm not saying that they are bad products - they are all good quality, and they all work well.

However, if you can make a pedal, you can make a set of patch or instrument cables for a fraction of the cost, and at a similar quality.

Personally, I would not use the pancake connectors - I would stick to Rean or Neutrik connectors, as they are a LOT more robust.

As for the cable itself, good quality instrument cable like Mogami and Van Damme is readily available, and very good quality. You can even buy Planet Waves as a bulk roll for about £35-40 for a 50 foot roll.

[Silver Blues]

Even GFS sells decent cable at a good price. "High end" cables are mostly just marketing guff. Working with RF stuff has shown me what's important in a cable, and "low-oxygen copper" is not one of those things. Since we don't have to worry about impedance matching, any well-constructed cable and/or cable assembly will do the job.

[inefficiency]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

Maybe the some of the extra cost goes into how tough and robust the sleeve is and such.

I'll check out those nice jacks and get it all sorted then. The main reason I wanted to use the pancakes is just because they're nice and flat and would save a little space. Still, I'm not THAT desperate for space.

[rocket88]

While I do agree a lot of it is marketing crap, I have to say two things. One, I have cheap cables, and I babe some high end cables, a white coily bullet cable, I can honestly say there is a tonal and volume difference. The bullet has more volume and a lot cleaner/clearer tone, as in there is more treble that comes through. Second, it comes down the the capacitance of the cable. The higher the capacitance the less highs get through, because the cable acts like a low pass filter. Compare a monster bass cable to one of their others, the bass cable sounds like a blanket is over you amp, and has much higher capacitance. Similar things will happen when you compare longer vs shorter cables. Longer cables=higher capacitance and less highs.

Now I'm not saying you should or need to buy super low capacitance cables that are over $100USD, quite the opposite. I think you have to try different cables and see how they affect the tone. I bought the bullet white coily mostly because of gearmandude, and I just always wanted a white coily cable of manliness/awesomeness, but when I tried it against my other cheapy cables, there was a massive difference. I so for mine for $30 so it wasn't really expensive. But, if you have a cable that has capacitance that's less then 40pf, you will hear a difference between the good and cheap, but you can go too little capacitance. It's like pedal companies that say NOS parts, as if that means it's automatically good, so he's it can be a marketing gimic. I can say that lava cables, while pricier are great, I tried one when my bullet started acting funny, but haven't bought one because the price is $60USD, so I'm going to get one when they hfe their buy one get one free sales this year, so it would be reasonably priced.

Now, as far as patch cables go, they are short runs of wire and won't make a difference, well atleast enough to notice.

[Surgeon]

I always make my own using mogami cable and amphenol jacks... for instrument cables I also add a techflex shield just so the cable's a bit more rigid, I just love the feel and the look....
I've never been as aatisfied with cables as I am with my own...

[Chris60601]

So - while all this is great info to have and consider, what are the top 5 cables that one ought to purchase?
Perhaps subdivided in length of runs, IE: 10, 15 20+ feet

I was big on the Fender tweed types and while they look nice with a black strat, I am noticing "noise" intrusion depending on the venue.

For example, one place does not have lighting for the stage so the noise isn't quite as noticeable as a place that does have them.

I coppered my strat and would have thought that would solve most (if not all) the noise. So it's down to either dirty power at the one place (and that is certainly a great possibility) or its me tweed runs.

I myself am leaning towards Planet Waves (but open to others experience).

Cheers
Chris

[Beaker]

Yes, Amphenol jacks are superb so check them out too.

Rocket you are absolutely correct about the manual properties of some cable being far superior to others, and to me at least, this is as important as the signal purity side of the equation. Cables that kink up into rats nests as soon as you look at them are no fun at all if you are playing live.

A nice supple, well behaved lead that moves with you and does not cause audible thuds or hisses when knocked or stood on is a must. It also needs to be robust enough to resist crushing and cuts. This is why I buy good quality guitar leads.

Patch leads on a fixed pedal board are a little different however, as they are less prone to damage, so do not need to be so well armoured.

You can easily get right angled Neutrik, Rean or Amphenol jacks that are not much higher profile than the pancake type jacks.


Chris don't get started trying to protect yourself from noisy power in venues - that way madness lies...

[Frank_NH]

I tend to be less concerned about cable brand as long as they are physically robust and sound OK.  That being said, one should consider two scenarios:

(1) Recording - definitely, look at cable quality, length, connectors etc.  You'd be surprised how noisy some cables are compared to others.  Paying more for better quality is worth it.

(2) Live gigging and practicing with your buddies - I go for robustness here.  You want the cables to last through many set ups and tear downs.  The "sound" of the cable won't matter as much as other aspects of your signal chain (guitar, amp, pedalboard) and the venue (noisy power supplies, neon/fluorescent lights, beer spills...).  

[rocket88]

Lol Frank, so true. I think. The trick is don't get caught in the hype, but look at the actual specs and be knowledgeable to how they affect your signal. also, when buying s quality cable, you should get quality service. For instance lava cable warranties their cables for life, so as long as you don't physicslly cut them in two they will replace them if theirs a problem, you call anthem and get a real person, hell the owner answers the phone still and gives help and will just talk to you. You don't have to spend a tone of money on cables, but when you get something that's a quality piece, it will sound great, be rugged, and last, so in the long run its cheaper.

Think about it this way, how many cheap cables do you have laying around? I myself have like 10, so if each one cost me $10USD that totals $100USD, which is far more then a quality cable. Now, if you include all the ones you've gotten rid of, the amount would be extremely higher. The only reason I have so many is cause the cheap ones break, so I just make sure I'm never without one. But, if I just bought 2 or 3 quality ones I wouldn't have so many, nor would I worry about them breaking. Just another prospective on this whole cable thing.

[negativefx]

I like the Switchcraft pancakes and Mogami W2319 patch cable for boards.  The cable is thin and easy to work with while still having minimal capacitance.

[fenderguy79]

I went with evidence screw in solderless.  Maybe a little expensive, and I probably spent more than I needed to, but I find they sound awesome.  Their customer service is also top notch.  My instrument cable started crackling after a year and they sent me a brand new one and told me to send the old one back.
The only thing I don't like about the SIS patch cables is that the connectors always tend to creep unloose. I had the same problem with george L's.  Eventually I would like to do soldered cables, but they're working great for now.

[alex.s]

Couldn't agree more with Frank. Same goes for PSUs. I see guys rocking up at gigs with very expensive PSUs, patch cables etc... To then plug into the same line as the lights dimmer and the bar fridges...

[Frank_NH]

I've been doing a bit of gigging lately, and yes most bars/restaurants have only one outlet on the wall (and a dodgy one at that).  The backbone of your performance is a well-made 6 or 8 power outlet strip like this (along with some good extension cords):

Power outlet (contractor grade)

 From there you can plug in your amps, effects, PA, and mixer.  And then you hope you don't draw too much current...

Some other Frank_NH gigging tips (I'm sure everyone knows these):

* Lighter is better!
* Simpler is better!
* Smaller is better!
* ...but have duplicates/extras of essential stuff (strings, cords, tape, picks...)
* If you are thinking of bringing 5 guitars, 20 effects, a Marshall Stack, mic stands, guitar stands for each guitar, personal monitor, looper switch for all the effects...Review the first three tips!!  

[rocket88]

I'll second that, but I can't help that I have and need my mesa m6 with 4x10 cab, and I'm dying for another cab. The cab is 100lb by itself. Something about playing bass and standing in front of a stack as a bassists, cause all the guitarists seem to be able to do it. But, more seriousness besides the common things frank said, all those bassists out there like myself, have a drum key as well i always seem to work with drummers that forget theirs.

[popov56]

Van Damme XKE cable and Neutrik connectors, right-angled or straight according to location.

Bought off e-bay and soldered up by my own shaking hands ......... cheap and rugged enough. Also the cable comes in LOTS of colours so it's easy to use different ones for different things, saves all kinds of confusion when setting up, tearing down or looking for problems.

Popov