ReAmping

[Marbles]

Hey Guys,

I have tried the seach function, but could not find a good example.. I think I'm going to be needing a reamp box. I'm going to use Ableton live in combination with a cheap interface like behringer u-phoria 404 so I can route some guitar effects as external effects.

Behringer offers a 204 and a 404. The 204 only has 2 inputs (need for my guitar and a mic) but also inserts. I don't think the inserts can be used for guitar pedals, so I think I will go for the 404. That one has 4 inputs and 4 outputs. I can use 1 output --> guitar effects ---> interface input (with preamp).

Now I'm going to guess I need a reampbox or something to send the output of the interface to my guitar pedals? Is there a vero for that? Does anyone happen to know if I need one?

I understand this may not belong on this forum, but in case someone knows if I need one and/or knows if a good guide to build one exists somewhere I'd appreciate it!

[Neil mcNasty]

Yes, you will need a reamp box to get the correct signal.
But if you have a DI box, you can send the signal the "opposite way" trough the DI.
For this you will need an female to male adapter in order to get the XLR to fit.
It is not as good solution as a proper reamp box, but close enough to get you started.
Using a DI box has some hiss to it, but a reamp box is dead quiet.

Another and more simple option would be to use two resistors in a voltage divider configuration:
Signal passes trough a 22K resistor, followed by a 1K to ground.
This variant is suitable for converting a normal Line Level/Synth signal into a amp/stompbox friendly signal, but I do not know how noisy/noise-free it is...
This variant has been lifted from this wonderful little converter box from Ken Stone, which should be interesting for many around here:
https://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs60_sba.html

But remember that many pedals can handle a line level signal just as well as a guitar signal.
Specially the delay and reverbs that are meant for the amp's effect loop...
So I would just try and see what happens when you plug in your pedals directly.
It might sound different but it still could be quite cool...
Many keyboard players play their keys/organs trough a guitar amp with no reamp or DI box.
So it mostly depends on how picky you are about how your amps/pedals react to the signal you feed them.

When sending the signal to a guitar amp in a classic studio reamping situation, then a reamp box/DI box is essential in order to get a signal that will give you the same experience as when using a guitar with the amp.
But if you just want to experiment... Then there are no rules or "correct" way to do stuff anyway...!

[SpaceCommandant]

I built an effects console (overdrives, envelope filter, delay, chorus... ) to receive tracks from my computer via a Scarlett 6i6, and also to run drum machines and synths through. In this context, I've never used a reamp box and have been totally happy with the results.

[balazs.bencs]

There's one thing that can be a problem: most of pro (and not that pro) audio gear use balanced connections, but guitar gear is usually unbalanced. Connecting the two will directly create a path for noisy ground current to flow into the audio path. So you'll need to isolate the ground with a transformer. This is pretty easy, I've heard some people had success with the L2A reamp box (schem: https://upverter.com/peterson.goodwyn/859469628167bf2d/LINE2AMP-Re-Amplifier-Rev-C-v3/)

It uses an Edcor transformer, and the only site that I found, where you can buy that transformer is this place: https://www.don-audio.com/Edcor-PC10K-10K 

Just make sure you use isolated jack connectors, that's really important.

[Sensei Tim]

This is a good cost effective diy reamp  kit

https://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/l2a

[Marbles]

Thank you All!

Nowhere else would I get an elaborate answer like this straight away, awesome.

I think the 'downfall' of the cheap Behringer stuff is the fact that nowhere it is stated that the outputs are balanced haha. Though the inputs are, so I will see how that works.

I am planning to have some midi synths, drummachines, so I guess the same thing. Does not have to be studio sound, if it gets mangled the better. Maybe my fancy Eventide or Strymon, but probably just a Vox repeater and and DD-6 delay or something. Not sure yet.

I will see how it goes without it first then. In case of hum or not being happy with the effects I know where to look and try to convert from the schematic..

Thanks again all for the clear answers!

[SpaceCommandant]

BTW, I've built this and it seems to work as it should. Really inexpensive transformer, too.

http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/resourceDetail/314.html

[GameOver]

Try this update

http://www.audioxpress.com/article/you-can-diy-reamplification-revisited

[MOPO]

Hello I will be interested to make a box of reamp but I ask myself a few questions?
I have never used this type of device but I would like to try for a next recording to be able to test quietly my pretty pedals of effects :)
I will leave rather this model that I tried

http://www.audioxpress.com/article/you-can-diy-reamplification-revisited#&gid=1&pid=5

(for a question of price) because otherwise there is the palmer DACCAPO which remains affordable.

https://www.thomann.de/fr/palmer_reamping_boxdaccapo.htm?glp=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAm7LSBRBBEiwAvL1-L9KQXKGbFVcvHWqUNpugwFbZ8jjPGwJfTnCV6XHM3-dcF9flYIZWGxoC39MQAvD_BwE

With this editing you seem correct (I have a doubt and especially on the xlr) and is that it will allow a sound quality correct see as well as the palmer accapo



merci pour vos conseil

@+

[Marbles]

Thanks, just revisited this thread, causeI think I ran into a problem, and saw your answer.

Everything is working as it should, I have set up an external effect in Ableton, and send it out to a tremolo pedal and back in the input of my interface.

The sound quality is great, it sounds as it should. There is just a lot of hissy noise. Because it's a send effect, the tremolo is always on, which results in a choppy hiss sound haha. I don 't think a sound engineer is going to love that lol.

So I figured seeing if a reamp would solve that issue. With the tips of all of you guys, the LINE2AMP for 50$ is reasonable. Im not splashing out on a Radial when I'm not sure if it will solve it and therefore justify the exorbitant price. The problem is; I'm in Holland.

Shipping costs plus border control costs and shipping time for about 3 weeks is a bit long. Very unfortunate.

@gameover your link works, thanks a lot. I just don't understand it completely. There is mention of a transformer being used. I just don't see it haha. It looks as if the XLR isnt wired either. Maybe I just don't get it haha.

Also: That transformer I have yet to find in Holland/europe.


If there are options that are doable in Europe I'd love to know!

[MOPO]

Yes indeed it's weird this editing :-)
Well I'm not sure at all and I do not have the equipment to test.
How did you do with ableton without reamp box ?
If you are in Holland you can take the palmer the delivery is free, the delay will be shorter, the editing done and the price in the end almost the same ...........

[Marbles]

Haha, yeah maybe I should..

I found out something about the Behringer device that in the end might be the problem. Or, Ableton I dunno.

Long story short: The device has a Main out L/1 and a Main out R/2. I use L/1 to send out a signal out to a pedal, and have that return into input2.

I send out a mono signal out of Main out R/2. Input 2 seems to have an effect on it. Even when I turn off all tracks that use the external effect, my effect can be heard in the background. I think thats my main problem. If I get rid of that, I only will have the problem of noise when dialing the send.

It works fine otherwise for a cheap piece of gear. But maybe I should upgrade to the 404 so that I can keep my sends in the 3 and 4 cause the inputs seem to be hardwired to their output counterparts.

But this might not be the forum to discuss this :D

[Addy Bart]

Sounds like you are monitoring through the soundcard, not Ableton Live. I was doing some reamping this weekend using a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, and had the same issue. I just turn down my mic preamp when I want to listen back to what I just recorded.

The Dacapo is a good reamp box. I’ve also reamped directly from the soundcard, and that’s sounded fine. YMMV.

[Marbles]

Thanks for your reply.

I am using it to play live, so unfortunately I do not have an option to turn down the mic preamp. I think I need to have it turned up.


I kind of got talked into doing a gig in a few days, so apart from programming stuff I need to figure this stuff out too haha. This is going to be a trainwreck lol

[Addy Bart]

You should be able to monitor through Ableton Live only. There will be some latency though depending on your setup, but hopefully not enough to mess with your playing. I would take a look at the Live forum for advice. Good luck!