Simple things you had to learn the hard way?

[motterpaul]

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[Frank_NH]

These are necessarily simple things, but I did learn them the hard way!  

* Don't put an op amp IC in a socket backwards!  It will get very hot - even at 9V!!
* If you're using PCBs, be careful with the heat if you have to desolder a component.  I've ruined a 3PDT board because I couldn't totally remove the solder from one of the holes.
* Be very careful when removing ICs from sockets, especially 14 or 16 pin ICs.  I stabbed my finger with the end of one of the IC pins trying to remove a CD4049UBE (ouch!).
* Always check your vero trace cut layout twice before cutting them.  Nothing like spending an hour prepping the board only to find some misplaced cuts...grrrrr!
* When you flip on your newly built circuit for the first time in your test rig and you hear NO SIGNAL, don't discount the possibility that you forgot to insert the transistors/ICs into their sockets...(DAMHIKT)
* Always measure the height of the components on your veroboard and make sure that the total height (pots+board+component height) will allow you to close the back of your enclosure without shorting something out.  You can always put some electrical tape on the back to prevent shorts, but I like to have a little clearance.  Along the same lines, check and double check that nothing is going to interfere with the input/output jacks when a plug is inserted!

[Luke51411]

Building pedals won't save you money.

[Frank_NH]

"Building pedals won't save you money. " ... unless you want a Klon

[Chris60601]

Don't ever post (anywhere) what you think your ears heard because no matter what you think you heard, others will tell you that your ears have lied to you. This is especially true if you use different parts but have the same values.  You can and will be ridiculed for that. Save yourself the embarrassment  Unless of course you know enough to know otherwise (which I certainly don't)

... Just sayin.

[Chris60601]

... And to counter that, know when to gracefully back out of a situation. I have seen others just carry on making matters worse for them and its just not pleasant for anyone (well, unless you happen to be one of the nimrods doing the verbal bashing - and have all to assuredly have forgotten they too were once know-nothings.).

[motterpaul]

There have been many times when I posted something, only to find out I had a leg of one transistor not in a socket, or some similar mistake - so my whole post was pointless.

I urge you not to worry too much about what sounds critical, tho, since most are really trying to be helpful. This is a very complicated thing to learn from scratch and many people here not only have the Electronic Engineering education, but they have also been doing this for many years.

What I tried to explain to people at first, when I was accused of not doing my homework, was that I had done my homework, but that there is so much to remember that you cannot possibly recall everything you need to know when you are trying to apply it. It takes time for certain concepts to become ingrained. For example, if you have been working with pots for years you instinctively know how they are supposed to react, but if you are new to them you can understand them in theory, but it is not easy to apply that in practice.

So I am just trying to learn by repetition and every challenge really is a learning opportunity. The more I build the more I retain. My biggest challenge remaining is looking at a circuit and instinctively knowing what each part is doing. I am not even close, although looking at a schematic makes this a lot easier to see.

The hardest thing for me to fully understand at first was boxing - especially when at first I thought it would be easy to add battery clips. I had recurrent grounding problems, but I was trying to build everything with LEDs, battery clips, footswitches, DC jacks all connected. Once I figured out how to build projects in stages (separate the circuit from the boxing) it got a lot easier.

[Luke51411]

True... Actually it can save you  money per pedal but you'll end up having way more pedals than you would otherwise hence having quite a bit less money. Unless you were planning on buying a Klon.

[Frank_NH]

Actually...you're quite right Luke.  It's same with guitar building, which I was heavy into before building pedals.  People think you can save money building your own guitar, but that's usually not the case, ESPECIALLY if you factor in the cost of your time (not to mention all of the tools, jigs, etc.).  However, what you can do in both cases (pedals and guitars) is to build something that is unique and perfect for you.  So you want a 1 13/16" nut width on your acoustic guitar (yes, I have that) - no problem.  And for guitars, special body or neck shapes, woods, designs, headstock motif, inlays, tuners, bridge...all can be customized.  

As with anything DIY, it's the joy of building that keeps us going with this hobby.  But I suppose that we also harbor the ambition that something we build will in fact give us sounds that can't be obtained in a commercial pedal!  

[rocket88]

motterpaul wrote

There have been many times when I posted something, only to find out I had a leg of one transistor not in a socket, or some similar mistake - so my whole post was pointless.

I urge you not to worry too much about what sounds critical, tho, since most are really trying to be helpful. This is a very complicated thing to learn from scratch and many people here not only have the Electronic Engineering education, but they have also been doing this for many years.

What I tried to explain to people at first, when I was accused of not doing my homework, was that I had done my homework, but that there is so much to remember that you cannot possibly recall everything you need to know when you are trying to apply it. It takes time for certain concepts to become ingrained. For example, if you have been working with pots for years you instinctively know how they are supposed to react, but if you are new to them you can understand them in theory, but it is not easy to apply that in practice.

So I am just trying to learn by repetition and every challenge really is a learning opportunity. The more I build the more I retain. My biggest challenge remaining is looking at a circuit and instinctively knowing what each part is doing. I am not even close, although looking at a schematic makes this a lot easier to see.

i'm sorry, but i can't hold my tongue on this, as this is the same type of comment that you made before that caused a huge kerfuffle a few months ago. every single person that is part of the community that takes the time to comment is doing it to offer help/advice, not most but ALL. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. you have had issues with people's comments, because of the attitude and you're responses to the help and suggestions presented to you. this has been an issue even recently. most of the issues could have ended simply with a " thanks, i didn't realize.......i'm sorry." don't paint your issues with advice, and peoples comments as something to learn the hard way, all of them have been do to you're attitude and the way you've interacted with certain people, myself included.

most of us are not electrical engineers, or have experience with it prior to getting into pedal building. most have learned what they have through building, experimenting, accepting help, and most importantly reading. if someone can't find something as basic as "how to wire and LED" then there is an issue with the method one is using in their search. we all have had to work hard to learn what we have, and do what we can do, you can not expect to learn everything everyone else has instantly. it takes time.

i've got say it's important to not just important to ask questions, but to be accepting of advice and suggestions people make. it's easy to ask things, but sometimes the plans we have and think will work, is pointed out that it won't. it's tough, trust me. you'll learn through your mistakes, and it's ok, you should also learn from the mistakes of others. like if you want to build a Big Muff, learn from the cockups of those of us that built one to help prevent repeating our errors.

do all the reading you can, learn as much as you can. focus on the bigger picture, and not just one build. for instance, if you're looking at building an OD and ask about clipping diodes for it, think about how you could apply that info to other effects. or how can you modify "x" effect for bass, well think about can you apply that to "y" pedal. which goes along with just learning as much as you can. read, read, read.

learn to search the forum before asking questions. many times people will ask the same question multiple times only to be pointed out to a link where the answer they have been looking for has been answered.

ah, and remember that if you ask for opinions about mods or improvements, you're bound to get multiple responses. every one of us will have different tweaks based on what we feel makes the effect sound better. so when you ask, you may get some ideas that you like, some that you don't. the same goes for what pedals to build. don't be afraid to experiment.


most importantly,remember that we are all a community to help each other, and that we're talking through text so sometimes it's hard to convey tone. you've got to let things slide and not let things get to you. hell, some of us are actually meeting up, going to concerts and such, so there is true camaraderie to be found here.

it's funny to mention saving money building. i definitely think that with the right builds you can definitely save money, but as mentioned already eventually you end up with a hoard of parts that seems to keep growing, packages coming all time, and you don't know what is inside. i make sure not to go on ebay anymore late at night because i end up buying a bunch of stuff and one day i have a surprise on my doorstep.

[motterpaul]

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[rocket88]

honestly man, it doesn't mean anything to me what you do or where you are on the learning scale. maybe you forget the issues you had caused based on you're reactions to things people said, but i haven't. i'm not going to go searching for every interaction i've had with you, but pretty much every single one you've been argumentative, refused to either take what i had to say into consideration, to the point where in a few posts i called you out on it. i even said said that all you had to do was say was you were sorry, and move on, and instead you just made another snide comment.

http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/Marshall-Tonestack-w-LPB1-Trim-or-Pot-td18640.html#a18643

i explained what i was talking about, you made a comment about it that was incorrect, i explained, then told you that you had it and pointed you to the BMP schematic which shows exactly what is being done with the tonestack LPB-1 boosted, and you're response was "i do understand how it works." fuck dude, stop with the complex. once i point out that i wasn't telling you that you didn't understand, you proceed to make  the comment

"There used to be a radio show here in the U.S. called "Mr. Science" - It started out "Meet Mister Science, he has a master's degree, in Science!" "

that was the last time i went to help you until the cornish buffer situation, since buffers are misunderstood, and it could help others. so lets call a spade a spade, that comment was just plain douchebaggery when someone is trying to help.

btw, i will also draw your attention to your posts with Javi, or the whole situation about wanting to use the Madbeans bacon bits where it was suggested that what you wanted to do was not a good idea and actually would be less effective then something else. every single time you were told about how you were talking to and about people, you would just keep saying "as a noob, blah, blah, blah." i simply don't like people with attitudes, and people that are passive aggressive, especially adults that act that way. i may be more in your face, and aggressive, i know that. it's just how i am. blame it on the fact that im from nj, lived in nyc, lift heavy fucking weight, i don't really care what the reason is, it's how i am and been and never had any issues with anyone but you. i don't beat around the bush, i don't coddle, i'm straight to the point. if you're wrong i'll tell you you're wrong. sorry, but i'm blunt and to the point. you don't like it fine.

check all the posts i've left you. read what i've written first, and then how i keep trying to explain things, because it seems from your responses that you're confusing what i said or that i'm not explaining things clearly.

i've done my best since the situation with Javi, when you said people here are not nice to "noobs" and i stood up for every single person in the community, to avoid you and not even comment to you. most of the time i've commented on things you have, and that may have not been correct, but rarely directly to you. making the comment that i talk down to you is such a load of crap, mr. "i sold my website for 7 figures, and i worked in countless well known studios." that sit is talking down to people and making yourself seem superior to others. you were called out on that too. to the point where you made the comment about leaving and not coming back, but here you are

i've worked my ass of to learn what i have, not just to do what i want but to pay things forward and help others. check my history, look at my posts on the main page under different effects. i constantly do my best to help everyone and anyone. shit, i talk to people in private through email to help them. i don't need to be made out that i talk down to people and don't help.

take a look at the post i left for you about the cornish buffer

"i've avoided this for awhile, as i've been choosing not to help you out paul for reasons i'm sure you know, but here goes. you need to understand what the role/job of a buffer is. if you're expecting there to be any sort of gain from using one, it's not going to happen. that's not it's job and it won't do it. a buffer is 1:1 as far as gain goes.

the job of a buffer is to take either a high capacitance input and make it a low capacitance output, or take a lower capacity input and raise the capacitance of the output. the idea is that when you plug a guitar into a cable you will loose some of the clarity and integrity of the signal based on the capacitance of the cable being higher then that of the pickups, there by loading your pickups, and as you have multiple pedals plugged into that cable you lose more and more signal quality. this is part or the problem when you use a ge fuzzface and a wah, if you place the fuzzface after the wah you'll get massive squeal and oscillation. also, this is part of  the reason for uber-expensive low capacitance cables, and without getting into an argument i can tell you there is a massive difference between cheap cables and some of the higher quality ones, both in tone, but also in volume. i wouldn't spend $100 dollars on a cable, but $30-50 i would after that some of the cables have too low capacitance and to me there's too much high end coming through. i also typically use 15-30ft cables no matter what, so longer cables = higher capacitance.

when you plug into a buffer, the buffer is supposed to remove the load on the pickups, and thereby regain the original sound of your instrument. now yes, some buffers are supposed to add a little something, a sparkle so to speak, like the klon buffer. but that may or may not be that noticeable on it's own. i have a soulfood, which has the ability to turn on and off the buffer, and you will notice the difference, but the klon buffer on it's own, i don't know how much you will notice. another example is with the cornish buffer and the G2. without the buffer at the front end of the G2, it will sound like utter shit, put it in front and the thing sounds fantastic and magical.

remember, that it's not so much about one thing being magic and making your instrument sound great, but its the sum of the parts, and what your gear is. not to pick on TGP people, but you don't want to be one of them that things ___________ pedal will make you sound like hedrix, that's the magic. "

and my post below at the bottom of the page where i posted some great info about buffers from Mr. Black's blog, and ended it with "i hope this helps."

do as you will, i wish you all the luck in the world. if you feel i haven't helped you, so be it. no sweat off my back. you've got an attitude, maybe not with everyone, but you sure as shit have had one with me, and i'm fucking done with it. i'll go back to just not saying anything to you at all man. btw, here's your riot act.

[motterpaul]

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[rocket88]

if you go to page one of that post you will find my first post to you as #13 under chris's post. then 5 more posts down, #18 post, was me again. finally, 2 more posts down, #20, was me again. you made the comment that i talk down to you, and you don't like that. here is a prime example of me not doing that, even after i point out that i wasn't going to help you again, but i did. you're response to anything i provided to help was absolutely nothing. your link starts on page 2, which is after ALL the info i gave about buffers, which was die to your post at the beginning that contained

"But I am seeing that the only way to really evaluate this is to use it as a buffer to start a pedal chain. On its own all I hear is a slightly brighter, cleaner sound, but definitely very little gain, if any." i was pointing out that buffers don't increase gain, they are not gain devices. again, lets call a spade a spade, your idea of what buffers do, because according to the definition of what gain is does not fit and is the wrong concept being applied to buffers, even using your definition you are wrong.

i bring up that post, started by you, about buffers, where i specifically provided help to YOU, with absolutely no condescending in my tone to you at all. sorry buddy, i won't have someone make it out that im doing something i'm not.

the post about Mr. Science, was in the thread about the marshall tonestack w/ LBP booster. i did not say you didn't understand buffers there at all, i was explaining how the LBP booster is used as a gain recovery for the passive tonestack. you're confusing two different posts on two different concepts. tonestacks are not "pushed" as you say. passive tonestacks will need to have a gain stage after them to recover the lost gain because a passive tonestack will rob the overall gain from the effect. hence the LBP is after the tonestack, not before.

point blank, i can give two shits as to your reason for the Mr. Science comment. you were being a complete douchebag, and frankly a condescending asshole towards me. if you think i have an attitude towards you, it might be because of the way you interact with me, which i pointed out already.

you think you explain things in a way that makes sense, but you talk in your own language, and use words that mean something completely different then your using. that's not how things work. there is terminology that means specific things so everyone knows what they mean. i've pointed that out to you, as well as others. you want good, clear, easy to understand help, you should use the correct terminology.

you just can't say, "sorry man, i didn't realize you took things this way," or "thanks for trying to help out." because of that, your attitude towards me, and just your general demeanor i'll just stay out of your way. it's not worth my time or energy to continue this. again, best of luck in your builds.