Sugestion for new layouts on this site

[JaviCAP]

After checking the amount of non dirt pedals in this web, and the commments from  different users telling that are getting tired of building just noise effects (dist, overdrive, fuzz, and so on) I'd like to suggest to Mark and Miro about the posibility of including more modulation and no  dirt effects.

I know that the boards would get bigger and complexity would be highly increased, but it would be nice too.

I've enjoyed a lot building effects like the Phazex, the Snow White, Keeley 4 knobs, HUmmingbird and many others not related to distortion.

Even the bigger and more complex boards are fun to build and they get a real challenge, both to build and to fit inside  an enclosure.

I know that you try to build all boards to fit in a 1590B but...... many effects were orginally  built  on bigger enclosures (who would try to fit a Meatball in a 1590b? :P), so, it's nearly imposible to fit them  in an smaller box. There are builds that use many pots, toggle and rotary switches and other kind of huge components, so I think that sometimes, limiting the  the size to a 1590B is a lame excuse.

I have no right to demand anything here, that's for sure, and I'll always be grateful to Mark and Miro for the great layouts showed here, but i'd like to tell you these words as a suggestion that I think would be loved by many of us, and I firmly believe that would be good for you (Mark and Miro) to face higher chalenges.

BR

[GoranP]

Yeah... I for one really enjoyed the Showwhite and the Clarinot and the DBD builds. I've built my share of dist/ods (not much of a fuzz fan) so it's various modulations that push my buttons these days. I'm building a pcb Doppelganger now, should be fun if I ever get it to work right.

[IvIark]

I think it was always my intention that when I ran out of my back library of schematics, I'd move on to bigger ones but obviously done the way I like them.  They would be much less frequent but it's the natural thing to do to make the collection as complete and useful as possible.  I've slowed down a lot too because I don't have a great deal of worthwhile layouts left to do, although this will obviously change all the time as new pedals are released and reversed.  So there will still be some new ones appear but I certainly can't see any more 100 layout months

So yes pretty soon you'll start to see some larger effects appear.  Watch this space

[toddvirgil]

Awesome Mark! Thanks again for all the work you and Miro do to make this site amazing.

[IvIark]

One thing that has been a concern for myself and Miro is the amount of support that the bigger layouts might require, especially when you consider we still get a lot of questions about fault finding things like SHOs.  But I'm not as bothered about this as I was previously because we are a community now and there are many people on here that answer more support queries than I do.

But I think we would need to have a new guide before we did this so that we could direct someone to a standard document that told them all the things they needed to check themselves before requesting support.  I can't even guess how many times I've typed "What voltages are you getting at the IC pins".

So I'll have a word with Miro so we can put together a comprehensive guide on what people need to check themselves first so we have a standard link to direct anyone to when they ask questions without having checked the obvious.

This will be a work in progress though and so won't all happen overnight.  I haven't had as much time to devote to this hobby recently and so will have to fit it in with other commitments as and when I can.  And I know Miro has been the same.

[IvIark]

Or maybe with the bigger layouts, only post once they have been verified by one of the regular builders who would like to get involved.  Just thinking out loud really.

[GoranP]

IvIark wrote

But I think we would need to have a new guide before we did this so that we could direct someone to a standard document that told them all the things they needed to check themselves before requesting support.  I can't even guess how many times I've typed "What voltages are you getting at the IC pins".

I think I mentioned this in the "forum improvement" thread but since I still feel this way, no harm in repeating. If we start a "build" thread or something of sorts, it may be useful to have the verifier (or whoever else chimes in with "it's working!" also post critical voltage measurements or at least the most obvious ones that get asked about later on in troubleshooting sessions such as "here's my ic voltages but the thing doesn't work, what are yours?". A guide on "check your supply voltages" and "base-emmiter voltage swing shouldn't be 9V" is certainly welcomed if any of you guys can find the time for it.
Maybe we could start a thread with "build doc suggestions"? Most of us here have certainly made enough mistakes by now to offer a few useful before-you-fire-it-up tips that can be digested into a general purpose build doc.

[JaviCAP]

Thanks Mark, will be great to get these new layouts :)

I think that support should be offered only  until the new board is verified. This is the time where the real problems should raise (misplaced components, wrong  values / , incorrect paths, desing erros / typos, etc)

Once the new vero is verified, is just a matter of debugin' and  with the guide you tell, should be enough as the error is in the builders side.

I have total confidence in many of this site users and really drives me mad when a board is verified and someone asks "is that board really verified? Doesn't work for me".

BR

[JaviCAP]

By the way, if it's of any help for the future debug guide,, my method is:

Before  starting to solder all the components:


1- Check continuity after I solder the wire bridges.


After I finish the components soldering and do the basic wiring to test (+9, ground, in / out wires and pots) and checking that the effect doesn't work:


2- Check continuity between rows to discover solder bridges. (Very usual, mainly when you begin to use vero)
3- Get IC and trannies voltages. They point right to the potential problem.
4- Check continuity between components. This way you find cold solders, misplaced components or even components not soldered ( i left  unsoldered once a whole side of a DIP 14 socket :P).
5- Check diodes and electrolithic's orientation.

These  checks solve 95% of the possible issues.

If it does not work still:

6- Check resistors values. Very easy in Mark's / Miro's layouts but a pain in the ass with standing components.

7- Check caps. being (in my opinion) the most difficult and boring task that you can find (checking caps once soldered), so I test every f*ckin single cap BEFORE it gets soldered.

8-Swappin' ic's or trannies.

I think that all steps until 5-6 (included) should be performed by the builder previously to ask for help.

There are more "profesional" ways, and I'm very fond of using a signal injector, but with the previous steps there's still no build that has failed.

BR

[alltrax74]

And even before soldering wire bridges, trace cuts need to be checked.
Once the cuts are done (I use a drill press with a 3.5mm drill bit), i first check each of them under a
magnifying glass and then with a multimeter

As Javi does, I test all the capacitors before soldering. It's time consuming but in the end it saves a lot of hassle (i trash a cap every 2 or 3 builds, mainly due to off value)
knifing between the traces under the magnifying glass is also a step i never save
And finally, using a test box before boxing can also save a lot of debugging time

[Surgeon]

Now I feel bad for writing: "not just going for the "oh wow, Mark came up with a vero for  *insert-name of cool but most likely overhyped boutique OD*, I've got to build it..."

That was in no way meant to say that Mark and Miro's work is too focused on dirt-boxes...at all! I love being able to find layouts for basically any distortion/OD/boost that I may be curious about.

The comment was mostly directed at my nature to be all "oooh, he posted this one! I have to build it because so and so said it was good or because it's rather hard to find"...

While I applaud the fact that the library will be expanded towards other types of builds, I definitely do not want this to be done due to the fact that some of us feel bored... ingratitude is definitely not something I want to be a part of you know? (and I'm not saying anyone's an ingrate over here either).

To continue on Javi's debug post: I test every component before it gets soldered, not just caps (ok, except ICs)... saves me a lot of questions while debugging. However, I'm guilty of not testing continuity between traces and across cuts... I must be lucky 'cause it's never been a problem in any of my 30-something builds on very so far (I do a lot more of this when troubleshooting PCBs though).