Woo! Got my first tape echo!

[Travis]

Hey folks. I came across a super good deal for this old tape echo unit and pounced. It's made by Gibson/Maestro and called the Sireko.

Basically the Sireko : EP-3 Echoplex :: Les Paul Junior : Les Paul Standard

It was originally intended as a budget model of the Echoplex. It's basically the EP-3 Echoplex but no sound on sound mode and a different tape cartridge. The tape cartridge is kindof a design flaw really. The way the head contacts the tape is a little finnicky. I may do a mechanical modification to that based on a clever trick I saw on a YouTube video

Anyway I've rigged it up so that it's working great right now and it sounds fucking cool. It's super fun to crank the preamp and get that crunch and of course the echo just sounds great. I'm pretty stoked about this thing and had to share!

[Freppo]

Awesome! It looks very cool and I bet it sounds great :)

[Marbles]

Congrats! Jealous! :)

[tabbycat]

bet it sounds amazing. the ep3 echoplex is monsterous. congrats on your deal.

[Luke51411]

Nice Score!!!

[Kinski]

Oh man! I bet it sounds awesome!

[Travis]

Thanks guys! After some more research it seems to have been part of the EP-4 line actually. Comparing the schematics the Sireko has a different preamp than the EP-3.

The preamp sounds really cool though, and of course the tape echo is the real magic part, and that sounds incredible.

I got this for really cheap because the seller said there were some problems getting it to have more than one repeat, but it seems that the only problem is the foam on the cartridge has shrunk too much to make the tape contact the heads solidly. If I shim it up to press the tape to the heads it works perfectly. So all I have to do is replace that foam or use a shim and this thing is fucking awesome!

[Chris60601]

So.... I can expect delivery by next Tuesday??!!

[Beaker]

Replacement, re-loadable tape cartridges for your machine Travis. From Arizona.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECHOPLEX-ECHO-PLEX-tape-cartridge-NEW-MANUFACTURER-/161762161359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a9c6b2cf

Nice score!

[Travis]

Thanks Beaker, but the Sireko uses a different tape cartridge. Check it out. It's the groovy swirly thing under the "Sireko" logo plate.

Basically it has a piece of foam on the top of the cartridge that presses the tape against the heads. The lever by the input jack is pressed down, then held down by the input cable when you plug it in. This lever pushes the cartridge up into the heads and motor when in use.

The tape is fed into the cartridge and pulled out the other end, and all of the slack just snakes around inside the cartridge. It's really cool to watch but it is kindof a silly design, because the foam will inevitably wear out or decompose causing problems. I guess it wouldn't be a big deal when the replacement tape cartridges were available, but now they're stupid expensive if you can find one

This guy modified his to fix the tape transport design flaw, but I don't like that he has lost the short slapback delay times, because that is absolutely one of the best ways to use this
https://youtu.be/P5Ua-A8Muvs

[Hozy31]

Looks good Travis. I bought a WEM Copicat recently, the IC400, and i must say these things are excellent. Get some real good Pink Floyd and some amazing psych sounds from it. Check the pic out.



I don't know if you can modify yours to this but i expect probably not. I must say though that loose tape on the top looks awesome. Would love to see it in action.

[Travis]

The WEM units are cool. I could add pulleys to modify the tape transport to a more conventional (better setup), but if I do that I won't want to relocate the play head like the guy did in the video that I posted.

[motterpaul]

I m not even sure how a tape delay without sound on sound would work- it seems like you would lose half of your repeats, which is no big deal if you can turn up the speed enough, but then you are going to chew through tape and whatever holds the tape in place (foam?) very quickly.

One thing I know a fair amount about is tape technology. I might guess the source for new cartridges in Gilbert AZ is Tony Krank (remember Krank amps?) because I have been to his house and he is an original echoplex nut - he had maybe 30 of them lying around, and he is also a tech so he fixes them. Tony is well known in these parts.

I hope you enjoy it. Personally, with the state of audio tape these days, and the complexity of original echoplex parts (not to mention echoplex knockoffs) I wouldn't bother.  I see guys talking about getting a used Tascam cassette multitrack recorder to get "the magic sound of tape compression" online all the time.

Newflash: tape has no "magic" unless it is running at least 15 IPS and is calibrated every time you change tape stock. I also thought the whole EP preamp fad was the stupidest pedal ripoff I had seen in years. It was just a basically clean boost - no magic. I think you are better off with an old analog "bucket brigade" chip unit like the old Ibanez units from the late 70s if you want true analog echo-type sound. Like this thing:



http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21317-echoes-of-the-past-and-future

[motterpaul]

I looked into this. The Youtube mods make a lot of sense (wrapping the tape around the head instead of relying on foam). Just be sure to clean the capstan and pinch roller before every use. Most people think it is most important to clean the heads, but it is the capstan builds up the most grit that eventually destroys the heads.

The best cleaner is 100% isopropyl alcohol (or the highest percentage you can get) because it dries faster while water will degrade the rubber.

How is the wear on your heads? If you see an hourglass or golf tee shape it is not good and you will have loss of high frequencies. If it is a straight line that is much better.

[tabbycat]

motterpaul wrote

Newflash: tape has no "magic" unless it is running at least 15 IPS and is calibrated every time you change tape stock.

i think finding 'magic' depends on what individual players are looking for. and each player may be looking for something different and find it in a different place. one players' magic being another's cacophony, and vice versa.

though if the above quote is taken from a recently published official scientific paper that has managed to formally identify, quantify and standardise 'magic' then i stand corrected. those geeks certainly took their time about it.

btw, thanks for the link to the premguitar article. interesting reading.



 

[rocket88]

got to disagree with you about the lack of "magic" in the tape delay. it's not so much magic in the tape as it's the sum of all the parts, no different building pedals using transistors or IC's. the thing is that the way some parts interact produce a certain sound we like. the way in which the tape produces the delay, the errors and warbles that are produced, and how the delay decay is special, which you don't really get that with any other delay. it's partially due to the fact that it's not highly efficient.

it's no different then why many of us use tube amps. it's the inefficiencies and deficiencies in the tubes and how they react to the guitar signal that makes us love them. tube breakup happens when it can't handle the signal anymore and they begin to distort. the distortion is technically a bad thing. many musicians search for the same thing to happen without tubes, and they can't get it. in reality i don't care what anyone says, without a tube you're not going to get tube distortion, it may be similar, but it will not sound the same. case in point, look at the number of hybrid amps now that have tube preamps to get tube breakout.

as far as the EP preamp thing, there is some truth to it. running your guitar through a device that has a built in preamp, like the echoplex, will alter your sound. now, as far as the bs about the pedal is that it is essentially a booster, which the real echoplex doesn't do. the pedal does alter your tone, but does it make it sound like you're running through an echoplex? i can't and won't say. but there is always a hint of truth with the myth.

[Travis]

Nah. Paul's right. I better throw this thing away. I can't find any magic in it

[Freppo]

motterpaul wrote

Newflash: tape has no "magic" unless it is running at least 15 IPS and is calibrated every time you change tape stock. I also thought the whole EP preamp fad was the stupidest pedal ripoff I had seen in years. It was just a basically clean boost - no magic.

I really have to disagree with you there. As rocket88 wrote, the magic is in the inperfections and inconsistencies of tape (or tubes), something you can't reproduce digitally.

I have a 24 channel Tascam tape machine in my studio. It's just a semi pro machine, but it sounds great. Every time I record to it I let the band listen to the tape recording and straight to digital without knowing which is which. They always prefer the tape recording. 10 out of 10 times. It certainly has some "magic". Everything comes out sounding bigger, punchier and the highend softens alittle in a perfect way that can't be done with EQ. I clean the heads often, but it hasn't been calibrated in years.

I have also owned a professional Studer recorder. Sounded really good, but very clean and uncolored no matter how hard I pushed the inputs. So clean that I didn't like it. My search for a high end tape recorder ended there and I went back to the semi pro stuff. To me the magic is in the inadequacies of the cheaper machines that run on lower speeds. But maybe that's just me...

edit. I also think that the EP booster is a great sounding pedal. To my ears it does color the sound, not alot, but even at unity gain it does something nice to the signal.

[tabbycat]

hey freppo, this article might be of interest to you. i bookmarked it last summer when it turned up. maybe something you've thought about or looked at elsewhere, but fits in neatly with the debate 'what looks good on a graph v what sounds good to the ear'.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/21/mp3-cd-24-bit-audio-music-hi-res

i have to confess that when mp3 players got bigger memories (my first was 128mb, bless) and i could finally think about having lossless 320 kbps version of albums rather than compressed 128kpbs ones, i felt exactly the same thing as some of the commenters noticed in the article; that for certain types of music garage, punk, and a lot of classic 60s and 70s pop, the 128kbps compressed versions actually sound far warmer and tighter (no porn intended) than the fuller spectrum 320kbps versions of the same thing, which (though technically superior) to the human ear sound too spread out and 'exposed', lacking both intimacy and immediacy.
so i have ripped a lot of punk and garage stuff to 128kbps and left it like that. technically i know it is an ‘inferior’ render, but to my ear the compressed versions capture the spirit of the stuff ‘better’ (as i perceive the spirit to be 'immediate and in your face') by concentrating interest in a tighter eq spectrum.

there’s a nice clip here where the great martin rushnet talks about recording gen x’s first album, in which he contrasts (in almost exactly those terms of immediacy and intimacy) what he was trying to achieve with the gen x debut, set against the tech-heavy recording process being used and abused by the reigning rock dinosaurs of that time (elp, yes, etc, spending years recording in hermetically sealed 48+ track studios). rushnet speaks from 2m30s to 3m00s.



by the way, talking from your recording engineer perspective, are there any books you’ve read you can recommend to beginners interested in home experimenting with classic 1950s/1960s/1970s production techniques. joe meek and martin hannnett  i know a bit about (though probably barely scratched he surface), but i’ve hardly looked at people like les paul, phil spector, tony visconti, etc.
can you recommend anything that gets into those producers heads, especially the wild outsider ones like meek and spector?

thanks for any ideas.

[Chris60601]

Tabbycat outstanding comparison and well done. Really puts it into perspective that I think all can understand. Well done.