Would itt be okay to ask a couple of questions?

[Peter Venkman]

Sorry for any grammatical errors in this post, I have mobility issues (PD) and am using speech to text software to help in my post.

First of all hello, and thank you for letting me join the forum. I want to thank you all for everything you've posted on this forum and blog and just the countless hours you've all spent creating these layouts. Im new to pedal building, severely dyslexic, and my mobility issues that limit the use of my hands. My doctors and physical therapists have suggested I pursue a hobby that will help me with both my cognitive learning retention and to regain dexterity in my hands so discovering this blog has been a lifechanger for me.

I've always had an interest in effects boxes, but can not play any instruments, so I thought why not use my unlimited free time to try to learn how to build these things to give to my friends who can actually physically play the guitar, so they can have something to remember me when I'm gone. Unfortunately my reading comprehension has gotten the better of me and I keep getting lost.

I have a question that I haven't seen posted anywhere else on the forum, if it has been answered somewhere in a FAQ or something it would be great if someone could direct me to it.

My question is, is there a place or post or something where I can find parts lists for these layouts, or are there any users on the forum who could easily generate some for me?

I can understand, based on the layouts, what Pot-o-meters to use, what kinds of enclosures to use, and know that I will have to ask the person who ends up using the pedal what kind of switches and knobs they want. So I'm good there. I'm just lost when it comes to what resistors, transistors, and capacitors to use based on the layout.

The first pedal I built based on one of these tag board layouts was the Devi Ever Hyperion 2 that my girl friend's son wanted to play his bass through. I purchased a pre-packaged build kit from M K L E C  dot com. The build took me about a month and a half, because some days I can't hold the soldering iron in my hands and I half to use alley gader clips attached to therapeutic quick grip arm extenders. Try to imagine soldering with your iron attached to an oversized wooden spoon with duck tape during an earthquake with 300x binoculars strapped to your head. The rug in my work area is covered in burn marks, and the cat won't come anywhere near me.

I finished the pedal and the kid loves it, I think it sounds like Satan's butthole, but he said it sounded just like the video from you tube and was exactly what he wanted. So I got some brownie points for that one.

M K L E C dot com included a parts list with the kit, and I have been able to search the sites recommended here for components, like T A Y D A electronics dot com and M K L E C dot com and have  been able to find the parts from the list that came with my kit, but I don't want to build another one of these pedals, I'd like to build different ones for other people. My Fixed income from disability and social security won't allow me to purchase more pre packaged kits so I need to purchase bulk quantities of components for future builds.

I just can't understand what some of the things are on the tag board layouts. Like, I don't understand which hole to put the negative pin of a component in and where to put the positive. Ive found that on some layouts, the parts are marked with grey boxes to designate which hole to solder the negative side of the component into, but not all of layout show that stuff. If the layout doesn't have the markings does that mean you can put the resistor or capacitor in facing either direction, as long as you solder it in the correct holes?

Also, i can't seem to find the exact same parts from the part list on any websites. If my kit came with a 100nF 63v poly box capacitor, and I can only find 100nF 100v poly box capacitors from any vendors online, can I use that instead of the 63v? I know that the 100v may be a larger sized part and I may have to make room for it, but will the sound change significantly if i use a bigger capacitor?

We chose the Hyperion 2 kit because its was only $12, the layout was pretty straight forward when it came to the placement of parts, and the comments on the layout page were easy for me to follow. The kid already had a box for it that he welded and painted for his industrial tech class so it worked out pretty good, even though it took some time. through the build I started getting more and more control over my hands, and my confidence about not letting this disease limit me shot through the roof. So I'm super stoked, to keep up this hobby.

[Silver Blues]

First of all, I want to say that I really admire what you're doing. I'm so sorry that you had to have been inflicted with these disabilities but good on you for powering through them and not letting them bring you down. I also love your sense of humor about the whole thing. I sincerely wish you get better as soon as possible. You've found a fantastic hobby and a tremendous community by joining Tagboard Effects, and we are more than glad to have you on board. Best wishes

Regarding your questions:

1. In general, there are not parts lists available for the layouts on this site. It is an idea that's been suggested by several forum members and debated by several more. The logistics of such an endeavor were deemed to be a little difficult to implement, however one of the admins could probably chime in on the status of this, because I'm not totally sure. However, I'm sure any of us would be happy to whip you together a quick list of parts if you let us know what you'd like to build.

2. Some components have polarity and some others do not. If a component does not have a polarity marking then you are correct in your analysis that you can put it in either way as long as both ends go in the right holes. For example, resistors do not have a polarity so you don't need to worry about which way to solder it in, but many capacitors and all diodes and transistors, etc. have polarity, so you'll need to be careful to note which leg goes where.

3. Typically, the power supplied to effects pedals is somewhere in the range of 9-18V. The voltage ratings on components don't matter so long as you choose components with a rating higher than the voltage they will see applied to them. A quick, easy rule of thumb is go for double the supply voltage, thus any capacitor (for example) rated higher than 16V will be perfectly fine, as long as the value matches. The voltage rating and size of the capacitor will have no effect on the sound. You are otherwise correct that the higher-rated parts have a larger footprint. Quarter-watt resistors are generally the device of choice although many of these circuits will be fine with eighth-watt resistors as well as there isn't tremendous current flowing and the supply voltages are low. You typically won't have to worry about diodes, transistors or op-amps.

Hope that was helpful, and good luck to you!

[rocket88]

hey bro, first off welcome to the community. while i'm not sure about the full extend of your loss of dexterity, i can tell you that as a fellow dyslexic i can tell you you'll have no issues building, just take it a little slow at first and you'll be fine. when i build i usually go through and check everything 2-3x before i solder parts in. that and i'm a little overly methodical in how i build and follow a rather strict series of steps when i build. and remember that with each build you'll get better and things will move faster. that and building isn't a race.

now, onto your questions. first, you'll see what parts you need for each build in the layout. take for example the following layout:



each part is shown where it needs to go, and has the value listed on it. the parts that do not, like the pots, and transistors, diodes, etc. will be listed below. you will also find the where the wires got to parts that are off the board like pots and switches.

components like resistors and capacitors (polyfilm, ceramic, multilayer ceramics) are non-polarized so you don't have to worry about the positive and negative end, since there are none. components like diodes and electrolytic caps have the negative end marked.

Example of electrolytic cap:


Example of diode:


so when you look at the layout you'll see the negative end marked for the diodes and the electrolytic caps. just place them the same way you see them in the layout and you're good to go.

the example you used about finding the right components is pefectly find. the only thing you have to watch out for is that the voltage rating of the cap is more then the voltage your running the pedal at. so just make sure you're like 25V or higher and you're fine. you just have to watch out for the size. the bigger the cap physically is the harder it is to get it to fit where you want it to.

i would suggest using tayda electronics for most of your components. they're cheap, have 15% off coupons fairly often and we post them here too, and good quality parts. i use the 35V electrolytics from tayda, as they're small enough and higher enough voltage rating so i don't have to worry about them. as for the poly caps i would suggest these, as they're basically the panasonic 63V caps everyone loves, and they're small. and use 1/4 watt resistors, as the vast majority of the layouts are designed for them, and they will stand up to what we need them to no problem. it doesn't matter if they're metal film or carbon film. metal film have a better tolerance, so they are closer to what the stated value is, so i suggest using them when you can, but some values aren't easily found in metal film so just get them in carbon film.

if you're going to order from tayda, i would make a list of a few different pedals you want to build and order the components for them, it saves on shipping, and get a few more parts then you need.

don't worry about asking questions, we're all hear to help man.

[Peter Venkman]

I can totally understand what you wrote and it makes so much sense!

I've seen that some of the layouts, actually only a small handful, include a parts list and I'm sure different builders have different preferences for sound quality so not including them makes sense. I was just curious as to whether or not it would be an issue to ask the community if a parts list could be generated for specific layouts, or if it was frowned upon.

I didn't want to insult anyone by asking what they used to make their pedal, and I didn't want anyone to give me a hard time for not being as advanced as other forum members.

I've been using tagboard dot blog spot dot com's layouts to learn from and wasn't sure if commenting on a layout and asking a users what they put in their pedal would be deleted or not. Like i said Im new to the community, the language, and the science of it all but I'm ready to dive in as long as there are a few life gaurds around to help me keep my head above water.

If a layout doesn't show any polarity markings, for something like a capacitor is there a prefered way, or rule of thumb for placement within the circuit? Like, "always place neutral toward the 9v rail unless otherwise noted" or is it a situation where if its not marked on the board it doesn't really matter?

You reply helped me so much, you have know idea how beneficial it was. I feel like I just graduated from college having it all explained to me the way you did. I mean it definitely wasn't an accredited university or anything, but definitely feeling like I just got a certificate from University of Phoenix Online or something.

[Peter Venkman]

Due you guys are awesome. Ive learned so much in the past two posts than I have when I started down this road a few months ago.
 
The top layout is where the components are placed, and the bottom layout is a mirror image of the board where you cut out the copper rail at certain holes, correct? Is it just a better practice to drill out the cuts from the same side you are placing the components on to avoid confusion and then when the cuts are made, flip the board over to clean out the space between the rails?

As for jumper wires or bridges, do I want to lay the wire across the fiberglass part of the board like the other components or should i run the jumper why r across the copper rails on the bottom of the board? From my understanding the jumper should be to juts connect the rails used for solder points and not all the rails in between the two solder points. Ive just been using the remaining legs of the resistors to make the connections. Is this common practice or should I be using the same plastic coated wire i use to connect my pots and input jacks to the board?

Any recommendations of the best types of solder, flux, and wire to use? I made the devi Ever Hyperion 2 using Voltage Pro Rosin Core Solder and Oatey NO. 95 Lead Free Tinning Flux that a plumber left under my sink about 15 years ago. As for wire I used 18awg solid core hookup wire that an small electronics store in my town sold me a mile's worth for 3 dollars. Of course it cost me an extra $5 to have them winde it on a spool.Im finding it somewhat ridged to work with with my hands. I can get it packed in the enclosure nice and tight around corners and slip it under input jacks pretty easy by it seems too ridged on the boards when eye affix them to the enclosure. What do you guys use threaded, solid core, 18 gauge, 20 gauge?

[rocket88]

glad to help man.

the example layout i posted has one board showing the parts and where they go, and the bottom actually shows the board without the components. so it shows the cuts from above, because if you mark your cuts from the top you can then use a drill to slightly enlarge the hole, then flip the board around to complete the cut. this will allow you to see the cuts from the top so you can use them to help place your components. you know what i mean?

you don't need to worry about polarity with components that don't have any. you won't see polarity for these components, since they're non-polar.

you want to place all components and jumpers from the top. if you put the jumpers on the bottom, copper side, they're going to make more connections then they should. what should help is to read this, if you haven't. it's a great step by step guide with pictures. it's a great want to visualize the process.

most of us use the same wire for the pots and the jacks. i would suggest 22-24g AWG stranded wire. if you are in the US i would suggest this stuff from smallbear. i recently switched to it and it's amazing, and reasonably priced. smaller wire is better, cause it will fit in the holes better, and not take up a lot of room in the enclosure. i like bonded stranded stuff because it can move without breaking, and will hold its place like sold core.

as for solder, it's all up to you. i personally like 60/40 .032" rosin core solder, avoid the lead-free stuff like the plague. the lead-free stuff just doesn't do as good of a job to me.

[kirshman]

Alright so you got some great advice, I just want to say welcome and your satans butthole comparison made me laugh out loud for real!

[Peter Venkman]

thanks alot; any idea where i can get one of these 1N270 (Diode) or what would be a compatible alternative

[rocket88]

1N270 diodes are a type of Germanium diode.you can substitute any Germanium diodes really like 1n34a, or any of the russian D9 diodes a lot of us have been buying and using. you can get them from tayda actually, or you can use ebay. like this auction.

the only thing is you have to be careful when buying Germanium diodes on ebay, because people will list substitute schottky diodes as Germanium and over charge for them. if you ever look on ebay for Germanium diodes you want to make sure they are in what's called a D-07 package which looks like these



they are larger glass diodes. the common Germanium diodes will look like these like 1N34a, 1N60P, 1N277's. there are some exceptions to this with some russian Germanium diodes that look like little nuclear bombs like D310 and D311.

if they are schottky diodes they will be in what's called a DO-35, which are smaller and look like these



these can sound really good, but they're not really Germanium, so you don't want to spend Germanium diode money for schottky diodes.

you'll start to know when to spot the differences with experience building. each diode type and diode family has a specific look so you can easily spot them.

[Beaker]

Hi Peter, and welcome.

It is fine to use left over legs from resistors or diodes as link wires - they do not need to be insulated wire, but you do need to take care not to cause a short circuit.

I suggest you have a look through the "Show us your pedal guts" thread to see how they are laid out - it is a real help to see how other builders arrange their boards.

Like yourself and Rocket88, I am also dyslexic, though admittedly not seriously so. I can easily make mistakes on really simple builds, so I have learned to take it slowly, never rush, and to double and triple check everything.


I will share a layout tip with you, as it really helps me a lot:

#1. Print out the layout you want to build.

#2. Using a rule and a yellow highlighter pen, draw lines across and down the layout, every five holes, so it looks kind of like this.



#3. I always label each line - 5, 10, 15 etc.

#4. Now cut your vero board to size.

#5. Use a pencil and rule to reproduce the lines on the layout, onto the board (fibre side).

#6. Double check the lines are in the right place, then scratch the lines onto the board with the tip of a knife, or something similar with a sharp tip.

#7. Now mark top left corner and the track cut positions on the fibre side of the board, using a Sharpie.

Then off you go!

Finally I would be happy to do a parts list whenever you need one. Either post up here what you want to build, or send me an email - click on my name above my picture to do this.

[Peter Venkman]

These are all great tips thank you so much!

[Peter Venkman]

ok, so what I don't understand though is how to tell what kind of diode I can substitute if I cant find the specific number. I understand that Germanium is probably most common, but based on a part number like 1N270 how can I distinguish what a suitable substitute would be?

[Chris60601]

1. Review the datasheet of the original part.

2. Type in google something like, 1N270 substitute

3. Look at the datasheet of the sub and compare to item 1

[Beaker]

Have a look at this:

http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/A%20Beginners%20Guide%20to%20Effects%20Pedal%20Components.pdf

Don't get too hung up on the issue of "exact" equivalent diodes.

You can build probably 80 - 90% of the builds on this site, with a collection of  only half a dozen different cheap and easily available diodes.

[Silver Blues]

Actually silicon diodes are much more common and made in more variants (that are readily available today, anyway) than germanium ones. The electronics industry moved away from germanium a while ago for various reasons but they still have their applications, especially in musical electronics.

[Peter Venkman]

You guys are awesome! Seriously I'm so stoked. I keep seeing people say, test your circuits before soldering them to the board. I want to do that so I don't have to solder, then resolder something I mess up, so I ordered a bread board for testing stuff out before putting it on the actual tagboard. I can't understand how I emulate a cut on a tagboard layout, on the bread board. Since you obviously don't drill on it. Would I just sort of make the circuit in a straight line on the bread board and wherever the tagboard layout called for a cut, just skip over to a different line of holes?

[Chris60601]

There are a tin of YouTube bids that take you through breadboarding. Once you view a few of them and work a few on your own, transferring to Vero will be easy and you will understand how how holes are dealt with from a breadboard standpoint. It's time to spend some time watching some bids ;)

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From: [hidden email]
Sent: ‎9/‎15/‎2015 6:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Would itt be okay to ask a couple of questions?

You guys are awesome! Seriously I'm so stoked. I keep seeing people say, test your circuits before soldering them to the board. I want to do that so I don't have to solder, then resolder something I mess up, so I ordered a bread board for testing stuff out before putting it on the actual tagboard. I can't understand how I emulate a cut on a tagboard layout, on the bread board. Since you obviously don't drill on it. Would I just sort of make the circuit in a straight line on the bread board and wherever the tagboard layout called for a cut, just skip over to a different line of holes?

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