You know what sucks?

[Heath]

I'll tell you what sucks...

I got this beautiful Thunderbird pcb all populated except for some diodes.... 1N5819... Really?  

*sigh*

I hate when I make a big Tayda order and find out I missed one stupid little thing.  I mean, I checked the parts list and saw 1N5819 and I just scanned right over it "yeah, I got those, sure."  

No.  No I don't.  Dammit.

[Silver Blues]

Preach. I made a big Tayda order at the beginning of January (that curiously enough hasn't yet arrived) and forgot to order two momentary SPST stomps, so I had to go put in an order for just that. I felt silly.

And that one switch arrived today, still no word on the rest of it. WTF.

[motterpaul]

Isn't it pretty much true that the 5817 5818 or 5819 are all interchangeable? They share the same datasheet. I am pretty sure I have subbed them before with no problems.

http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds23001.pdf

[Heath]

motterpaul wrote

Isn't it pretty much true that the 5817 5818 or 5819 are all interchangeable? They share the same datasheet. I am pretty sure I have subbed them before with no problems.

http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds23001.pdf

I considered that, as I certainly have 1N5817s, but this circuit runs at 24v, so I figured the 40v rating on the 1N5819 might be to deal with that.  Then again, I'm a sub-novice electrical engineer, so some of this is still Hogwarts to me.  :p

[Frank_NH]

Don't feel bad Heath - I had to order parts from three different sources because no one source had everything.  For example, Smallbear had 1N5817s but not 1N5819s.  Forutunately, most parts suppliers are fast shippers, and trust me it'll be worth the wait.  

[negativefx]

No matter how much planning I do (6 pedals to build, let's fill out a spreadsheet of components to tally them up...) I still end up missing a stupid spdt or some random transistor.  Oops, I had B550C not B550B.  DERPRPPPREPRPERPRPRPRP.

Small bear has made a lot of 'handling' money off of me in the past few years.

[Synsound]

It never fails. Not to mention, it's usually the thing that spawned the need for my order to begin with.

[rocket88]

haha negative, it's so true. from the last 15% off, i made 2 order because i forgot to order things in the first order, then i when i got my order i sorted and put everything away and i realized i forgot some other things, and i could use more 100k pots since almost every pedal uses them for output. i'm just waiting for the next sale. lol

[IvIark]

Heath wrote

I considered that, as I certainly have 1N5817s, but this circuit runs at 24v, so I figured the 40v rating on the 1N5819 might be to deal with that.  Then again, I'm a sub-novice electrical engineer, so some of this is still Hogwarts to me.  :p

The voltage goes up as you travel through the diodes, so the only one that absolutely has to be rated 20V+ is the last diode before the 68R.  Just use 1N5817's for all the others and a 1N4001 for the last one.  Then the final voltage will very similar to what it would be if using all 1N5819's.

[negativefx]

I don't have facebook so I rely on catching their sales from my wife's account.  She knows better than to notify me when Tayda posts sales.  :)

[Heath]

IvIark wrote

The voltage goes up as you travel through the diodes, so the only one that absolutely has to be rated 20V+ is the last diode before the 68R.  Just use 1N5817's for all the others and a 1N4001 for the last one.  Then the final voltage will very similar to what it would be if using all 1N5819's.

I wish I'd asked about this earlier, heh.  I had already ordered some 1n5819s before posting so I just waited for them.  Finally got them today.  All the same, thank you for the info!  I feel like a real meathead sometimes, but I like to think I'm capable of learning.

[alltrax74]

So, how does this beast sound ?

[Heath]

alltrax74 wrote

So, how does this beast sound ?

I was tempted to post right away, but I didn't want to be a "honeymoon" reviewer.

After having it build for a few days, I can honestly say, this thing is quite awesome.  The interaction between Level and Gain is pretty heavy, which threw me a bit, but then I've never played a real Marshall amp, so, yeah, that's the worst thing I can say about it.  The EQing between Top, Bottom, and Tone is amazing.  With full Bottom, full Top, and full Tone you can shatter glass, but honestly I've played some humbuckers that could benefit from a lot of treble on tap.  With all of that all the way down it's still a usable sound.. maybe not so much with buckers but with single-coils and Bottom, Top, and Tone all the way down it still sounds good.  The Presence control, as remarked in another thread, does not have a huge impact, but even so I love the subtle sparkle it seems to add.

I'd rate this on 1-10 (PCB):

Build Complexity: 7
Mainly due to the more uncommon diodes due to the higher voltage, relatively high component count, and unusual input connection.  

Build Design: 6
The 6 pots across really limits knob choice, which will prohibit most "Marshal" style knobs and the most commonly available and affordable 9mm pots from Tayda are smooth shaft which usually requires medium to large knobs (yes, there are some smaller grub screw knobs, but they are weak little things that tend to skew when the scree is tightened due to the plastic only being a few millimeters thick).  Also, you have to plan out your board placement VERY carefully as there is extremely limited room between the back of the board and the input/output/dc jacks and on the other side with the 3pdt stomp.  A few millimeters off will really mess you up.  I think a full enclosure drill layout would have been an advisable inclusion in the build docs.  That said, careful planning will have this board fitting perfectly in a 1590BB.

Controls: 9
I took one point off because tweaking either Level or Gain seriously impacts the other.  This is not "bad" at all, but it can cause some back and forth that one might not be used to.  IE, if you have your level exactly where you want it, but need more dirt and adjust the Gain, you need to go back and fiddle with the Level and vice-versa.  I know this is fairly common in a lot of pedals, but it's a bit more-so in this one.  Still only worth one point because it's not that big of a deal.

Overall sound:  9
I was tempted to give it a 10, but realistically, a 10 would be a "throw your other pedals away" rating.  There are still numerous situations where I'd prefer my MI Crunchbox over this pedal.  That said, the Thunderbird is the first "dirt" pedal since building the Crunchbox that made me go "Wow!"  Frankly, The Thunderbird the The Bomb.  It sounds amazing and it's my second favorite dirt/amp pedal out of all I've built.  This is a pedalboard shoe-in without a doubt.  It's nice and Loud, Articulate, no mud of muffle, and (I know this is overused, but I mean it here) it really lets the nuances of your playing shine through.  My Angus/Malcolm riffs have NEVER sounded better.

I love this pedal and HIGHLY recommend it.  It's probably the last "Marshall"-style pedal I'll ever build.

[alltrax74]

Wow, thank you so much for this exhaustive review, 1776 pcb ordered

When looking at the build doc I had the same reaction with the pot placement, so I might just use 16mm pots on 2 rows (4+2) and connect them to the bord via wires, I can't imagine this pedal without gold marshall knobs

[negativefx]

Can't wait to build mine.  Have to build a meathead deluxe and a citrus mk2 for others before I get to it though.  :/

[Frank_NH]

I agree with Heath's review, though he didn't mention the background hiss which can be an issue if you turn the treble full up.  Nevertheless, the sound is awesome and you'll find a good setting for your favorite guitar(s).  I like to keep the Level low and crank the Gain to taste, adjusting the tone controls as needed for your guitar.

One question we could ask is how to use this pedal in your pedal board.  I don't think any pedal can rightfully be called a "foundation" drive - that is, plug the pedal at the end of your chain and you instantly have an XYZ brand amp sound, and so you can just stack pedals behind it like you would an amp.  But given its headroom, the Thunderbird comes close to that idea.  It would be interesting to hear Heath and others who build this circuit comment on this.  Personally, I am just going to use it as another overdrive/distortion in my chain, perhaps taking the place of a Crunchbox or Zendrive.   I'll always have a tubescreamer, chorus, and delay, along with my "always on" silver Klon(e),  which acts as a my preamp/buffer (first in the chain).

In the final analysis, I think the Thunderbird is definitely worth building and ** studying ** for it many novel design features.  And I hope the good folks at ROG keep developing more projects like this for the DIY community.  

(Edit - I also agree with giving the board design a 6.  It took a bit of planning to get that to fit in a 1590BB sideways.  The Britannia board was perfect in that regard - nicely fits right side up in a 1590BB.  BTW if you're ordering the Thunderbird, get the Britannia too if you haven't built one already.  It's great too!)

[Heath]

Great additions, Frank.

I'm so used to getting a little bit of noise with my single coil pickups that the bit of hiss on high treble settings didn't even register with me at the time, but looking back I do know what you are talking about.

I am definitely going to try this out with some different pedal china configurations.  using it with a tube screamer was actually one of the first thoughts that came to mind, considering how common a tubescreamer into a dirty amp is.  Of course with the Thunderbird not being a "tube amp" I'm not sure what the results will be.  I expect less stellar than a TS into an actual Marshall amp, heh.  Then again, the dirt from the pedal riding shotgun with the TS-pushed-Tubes might yield a really satisfying sound.  We will see!

I'm still working on the enclosure for my Thunderbird.  Once I have it officially boxed I'm going to see how it works with an OD pushing it.  Of course I'm going to try some other stuff out as well like a phaser and such.

[alltrax74]

The Britannia was also on my list but hey, I already have my Galileo clone, and I play a Vox AC15

[Frank_NH]

alltrax74 wrote

The Britannia was also on my list but hey, I already have my Galileo clone, and I play a Vox AC15

That's a good point, alltrax74.

My current rig is [Gretsch guitar]-->[Klon(e)]-->[Other effects]-->[Clean SS Amp w/ reverb]

The amp is a Roland BC-60 Blues Cube 1x12.  I set all EQ flat and perhaps add some presence to sweeten the mix.

My assumption for "amp-in-a-box" pedals is that you're going into a clean amp and letting the pedal give you the tone (or is that "toan" ).  If you plan to use the pedal as a special overdrive or distortion then you would simply set your amp for your rig and add the pedal into the chain.  For example, you might want a bright cranked Brian May sound, so you could set your Galileo for that sound using your amp.  For clean or slightly dirty tones, you would switch off the pedal and select something else.

Now, some people also record with these pedals and there is no amp involved (just a DI box and recording interface).  That's a different scenario than what I normally do with effects pedals (and frankly one I haven't tried as I normally mike my amp).

[alltrax74]

Can I use a ICL7660S instead of the LT1054 in this build ?
I guess so but I prefer to check...