question for bass players

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

hey guys!
i was wondering about drop C tuning.
what would you do with your bass?
would you go with a 5 string bass for that?
or get fatter strings and try to set up a usual bass ?
.124 .084 .061 .043 maybe?
any other tricks or things i should be aware of ?
i've set up my guitar, in drop c relatively easy, but i've no knowledge with basses.

thanks
Savvas

[Beaker]

So you mean tune down one whole step, but tune the "E" string down another whole step to C?

You could do it with a four string bass, with bigger guage strings - use the BEA and D strings from a five string set. You will have to re-cut the nut and re-set the intonation though!

Using standard strings will sound horribly flabby.

You could do it with a five string bass with the B string tuned up half a step to C.

Personally, if I had one, I'd use a five string bass and tune alll the strings up half a step to C F A# and D#. Drop tuning on guitar is great, but it is a pain on bass. Runs and fills are all in the wrong place!

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

thanks Beaker!
in our new group, our tuning is CGCFAD
however we've just found a bass player who has an awful old rusty bass! he's in to buy a new one, so i'm trying to help him choose, and i'll do the set up too. i've learned first hand how difficult is to set up a bass in CGCF, trying on a great cort bass we have at studio just to get a taste. but after all i think i'll do what you said..use the BEAD strings from a five string set..looks like the best idea,as a 5string bass is a bit overkill for our purposes and his wallet !!!

thanks again!

[rocket88]

Hey man. I agree with beaker that I would go 5 string if you can scrounge the cash for it, since you would be tuning up instead of down. I actually have one of my 4 strings tuned to C standard using normal gauge strings without any flabbiness, the trick is you have to do a lot of messing around with the setup to get it right. The bigger problem is that if you want to tune that bass back up or do any other tuning on it you have to resetup the bass, so it's just a pain. I haven't done the trick beaker mentioned, but it's a great idea. You'll still need to set it up to prevent flab, and you're going to have more tension on the neck, which may or may not cause a problem for the bass you're going to use.

[Beaker]

I've converted a few four string EADG basses to BEAD tuning using a five string set of strings, and all have worked out fine.

The string tension is usually just slightly lower with a 5 string set BEAD than normal 45-105 EADG so tuning up half a step should be no problem unless the bass has a very skinny neck, or suffers from a lack of truss rod adjustment.

[rocket88]

That's awesome beaker. I'll have to remember that. I'm sure it will come in handy.  

In my head I was thinking thicker strings = more tension.

[induction]

rocket88 wrote

In my head I was thinking thicker strings = more tension.

For wound strings, tension is determined mainly by the core diameter. The winding adds mass but isn't held under tension, so it increases string thickness and drops pitch without adding tension.

It gets more complicated, course. In practice, the manufacturers fine tune the core and winding properties (diameter, alloy, etc.)  to try to achieve roughly equal tension on every string for an assumed tuning while resisting breakage.

Here's a cool string tension calculator, for anyone interested.

[rocket88]

induction that's really neat tool. i forget that for some strings they add mass through wrapping rather then a thicker core, so that makes perfect sense. which then makes sense that some strings for new guitar strings i've seen for drop tunings have a denser core, but it's not thicker, so that the mass goes up, thickness says relatively the same, and tension doesn't really change. it's amazing how much physics goes into something as simple as strings.

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

thanks guys!
all of your answers are very very helpful!
knowing that a string set for bass is about 70-90 euros, your suggestions helped a tone!
i'll talk with my friend and see...
i'll come back with any other questions.
the best choice as i see it, is using the 4 strings of a 5 string set, on a normal bass.
my friend wants to have a normal tuned bass too, so i'll try to help him upgrade his old one (basically change everything, from bridge to electronics), and set up to CGCF the new one.
cheers
Savvas

[Beaker]

Savvas, please don't pay 80 Euros for bass strings!

Have a look at these:

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/strings-c1/bass-guitar-strings-sets-c34/legacy-legacy-5-string-nickel-roundwound-bass-guitar-strings-45-130-long-scale-pack-of-2-p10300

That's 30 Euros for two sets of five strings bass strings.

I buy all my strings from here, and I use these Legacy brand strings a lot. They are Strings Direct's "own brand", but they are made in England by Rotosound (they sometimes have Rotosound stamped inspection labels in them). They are very good quality, and I have never had a problem with them, and Strings Direct are a really helpful company to deal with.

I don't know how much shipping will be to Greece, but they happily send strings to Europe - I can't think that it would be more than 10 Euros for shipping.

I would give them a phone but they are not open at the weekends. - I will phone them on Monday and ask for you, then report back here.

[vid.sicious]

I am intrigued by this. My Standard tuning is also C and I'm about to form a band so obviously I'll be in the same position with my bassist. Do you reckon the nut would have to be widened or replaced to fit the strings well without breaking it? I've broken too many nuts on guitars duo to bigger gain of strings than they could handle...

Edit: never mind, just read Beakers post again and you explained it in the first reply! Sorry.

[rocket88]

god damn you guys literally get raped for springs. the most i pay are $50 for a set for my 4-strings, because i use elixir strings which are coated, but normal good strings cost like $30. i could probably buy them and send them to you cheaper then what you guys are paying.

vid - all my guitars have heavy gauge strings and haven't had to adjust any of my nuts. check out the cleartone heavy series, dunlop heavycore, and the d'addario nyxl strings. even though they're thicker gauge i've had 0 issues with them at all, and pretty happy with them. the cleartones come not by gauge, but also by what your tuning is going to be.

[Silver Blues]

Holy shit you guys pay 80 Euro for bass strings? That's insane. Even some "fancy" strings aren't that expensive IME, I have a set of D'Addario Chromes on one of my basses that cost me $30. I also unfortunately don't know much about this topic because I prefer light-gauge bass strings. Heaviest I use is a 47-107 set of Dean SR2000s (which I kind of hate lmao, not because of the gauge but because they are irrationally mid-heavy and sound kind of gross). I have heard good things about Cleartone, and also Kalium Strings is a popular choice for heavy gauges and odd tunings.

[Beaker]

Strings Direct are really good, and their prices are considerably less than high street music stores.

The most expensive strings I buy are Austrian made Thomastik Infeld flat wounds that I use on some of my basses, at £48 a pop. Very expensive but in my opinion worth it as they sound awesome and last for years. In fact they last so long that they actually work out really cheap!

I know you guys in the States are all horrified reading this, and strings are much cheaper here in the UK, but there are places in Europe where stuff is outrageously expensive. Combine it with low wages, and it's a huge double whammy.

I'm going to say it again so that Savvas does not miss it;

Savvas, don't pay 80 Euros for bass strings until you have read my earlier post. Buy them from Strings Direct in the UK, or contact me and I will help you out!

[Beaker]

"I am intrigued by this. My Standard tuning is also C and I'm about to form a band so obviously I'll be in the same position with my bassist. Do you reckon the nut would have to be widened or replaced to fit the strings well without breaking it? I've broken too many nuts on guitars duo to bigger gain of strings than they could handle..."

Most factory guitars will handle a small increase in string gauge. if it came with 9-42 for example you should be able to fit 10-46 with no problems, possibly up to 10-52.

Turning a four string 45-15 EADG bass into 65-130 BEAD beast is a different matter. as you say, it's really to crack the nut, or you will end up with the strings sitting way too high.

Cutting nuts is by far the most highly skilled job on a guitar, as it affects so much else. It's so easy to get wrong, (one tiny error and it's game over - yank it and start again with a new one) even if you have done it for years, and a badly cut nut will make a guitar play, and even sound like shit.

Take your bass to a good guitar tech, and get them to do it for you - it's one of those jobs it's worth paying a premium for. I have had to deal with crap guitar shop fitted nuts too many times.

If however you want to take a shot at it yourself, let me know and I will guide you through it.

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

Yeap man! I known it's insane....it's just that here in thessaloniki greece if you' re in hurry you have no choise!!! Anyway.. my friend is going to buy a bass from thoman.so i' ll tell him to order strings online too...by the time bass comes, i believe strings will too...love you guys for your help..cheers!

[Beaker]

Hi Savvas. I have just phoned Strings Direct for you. They charge by weight and size for international delivery, but for just two sets of bass strings they will charge either £6.99 (just under 9 Euros) for standard untracked delivery, or £9.99 (about 12.70 Euros) for faster tracked express airmail delivery to Greece.

So if you buy that twin pack of Legacy strings I suggested to that comes to 42 Euros and 50 cents for two packs of strings, including delivery to Greece.

They do all the other major brands of strings as well - and you can use Paypal.

I Hope this helps you out.

[negativefx]

If you want to go that low, use String Tension Pro.  Punch in the tuning, your scale, the type of strings, and your desired tension, and they tell you which strings to get.  It works AWESOME for drop tunings.

Ex: playing a Fender P Bass with 34" scale, drop C# (or Db Ab Db Gb), and you want the same tension as in standard E tuning, you would get these gauges:   .046, .070, .085, .120.

If a looser string tension is OK, you can adjust the gauges down to something that will work with your nut.  It let's you tweak them and see the results as you go.

Oh, and lastly... if you do need a bigger nut, don't take it to a guitar shop.  Bring it to a violin/cello type repair guy.  They'll do a much better job and you'll get a real bone nut to boot.  I lucked out and found a guy that does them for $40 USD including the bone, but I suspect most places charge double that.

Cheers!