switch popping

[oasisman]

Right I could only measure the readings of another peda,l as I was experimenting with input and output buffers last night go see if I could tame the popping, but no luck and I have not put the pedal back together yet.

So I have taken readings from my deep blue delay build if that is OK?

The voltages where zero on bypass on both input and output jack.

When effect on the reading was 00.1 on the input and 00.9-00.5 on the output also I tried disconnecting the input jack and effect send and pop is still there.

If it was the actual switch would there still not be a pop when no power connected to the pedal and cycling bypass?

I run my soldering iron hot and tin my wires and hold the iron on tje lugs for a very short period.

[oasisman]

I've just noticed all my pedals are microphonic I can tap them and they make sound through the amp i m sure this is not normal is it?

[Beaker]

Um, no - but is is possible (one or two maybe, but not all of them). My guess is that it is actually not your pedals at fault here, and you need to track down the source of the microphonics. It could be your guitar, could be your amp.


If you have any pedals that you have bought rather than built yourself, try them as well to see if they sound microphonic too.


If so strip everything back to basics - guitar, lead, amp, and see what occurs.

[oasisman]

Well this is embarressing I found the cause of the pop.  As induction said you should ground both jacks together as they can come loose...

I realised all my pedals had looseish jacks and when I grounded both together the microphonics where gone and so was the pop!

There is still a little thud barely noticeable even with my ac15 cranked.  But I think this is the switch cause if I push the button gently there is no thud at all, when I stomp you can hear the switch through the amp but its very quiet.

Thanks everyone that helped me, especially induction as I would of prob never bother to ground my jacks together!

I still want to experiment with soft momentary switching though and intend to try a CMOS switching bypass.

[induction]

Excellent. Glad you got it sorted. Let us know how your experiments in other switching methods go.

[Silver Blues]

I'm in your boat if you want to try soft-latch switching. I love it. Let me point you to a few sources.

Mictester's low-current switch and it's evolution into an awesome soft-latch switch. They're both part of the same FSB thread, I'd have a read if I were you, it's very interesting. The latter scheme is probably what I'll be using from now on.

Paul's switch right from this site. Neat circuit, easy to do, and you can either use Mark's layout or use Paul's own, which is evidently no bigger than a 9v battery if you have that space inside your enclosure.

Dual CMOS soft-latch. A little complex but very functional.

DIY microcontroller switch. If you feel like treading some water in that world this is a nice scheme.

Jack Orman's PIC switch. I own two of these and they're great, if a little expensive.

Monomonster RBM. I've not used this but it's supposed to be good.

Those are all the ones I know. Have fun, you'll never want to go back

[Beaker]

I'm really glad you got this sorted. It's always the "simplest" things that cause the most grief.

For what it's worth, after I have spray painted my pedals (I drill the holes before painting), I always run a drill back through the pot, jack and switch holes to remove the paint build up, and sand the inside of the enclosure to remove any paint. This ensures that I have a really good electrical contact between the pot, jack and switch cases, and therefore to ground. I always run a wire between the jack grounds too.

It's a "belt and braces" thing I learned fairly early on, after a couple of builds had hum problems.

Hope this helps.

[oasisman]

You're telling me beaker, I was loosing my rag over it.  I know its sounds stupid but the pop was really winding me up. My friend with lots of eh effects just laughed at me and said that just the way it is.

I actually don't own any real pedal anymore, I sold all of mine about 8 years ago when i was going through a tough time and they where only boss and ibanez pedals so I just remeber them all being completely silent to cycle.  The only real pedal I still own is a old crybaby that I have modded to bits.

Silver blues may i ask what your favourite soft bypass is? The rg keen CMOS looks like the one I'd like to try the most mostly because the ic's are so cheap on rapid online.  But as you have tried a variation I'd love some first person perspective on them.

[Silver Blues]

Well I do really like Jack's modules, they work flawlessly and have two features I really like - firstly it blinks the LED twice on power application, and reverts to bypass on power loss. The only issue I have is that they're expensive - he used to sell kits specifically for this that included all the parts for $14, and shipping (I'm in Canada) was $7. Now he only sells the DPDT switching boards (also usable for the same purpose) are $7 for the bare board and microcontroller are $7 plus my $7 shipping, and then I have to supply my own parts. It's too much for me to continue to purchase, especially since my goal is to sometime in the future have one in every pedal.

My next choice would be the soft-latch version of Mictester's switch, because of it's simplicity, effectiveness and cheaply acquirable parts, plus there's a PCB layout right in the thread. The man knows what he's talking about and there is a way to incorporate the guaranteed state thing that Jack's board has (he mentions how in the thread). I have a batch of boards to etch that includes four of these boards, we'll see how it goes if I can EVER get a moment to develop and etch. This one also has the benefit of drawing next to no current, which is a bonus whether you're using a wall wart or battery.

If you use Paul's system, keep in mind you will need to add a flyback diode across the relay coil (cathode to power rail) to make it work 100% properly. This is important. It's a nice scheme, but uses a non-latching relay - this is both a pro and a con because you can find those 10-pin micro relays in 5, 9 and 12v non-latching versions for next to nothing (search NEC EA2-5 or EA2-12 on eBay), but since they're non-latching they need constant application of voltage in the engaged position. Not a big deal if you're using a wall-wart I guess, but becomes one if you use a battery or if you have lots and lots of pedals from a single PSU. It's a good circuit though.

I've never used the one you're gravitating to, but the logic is sound and it's really simple. Give it a try, I could attempt a vero for you if you like (if it doesn't end up tremendous).

[oasisman]

I really don't want to be buying already built pcb boards, ideally I would like to use something I can fabricate on a piece of vero.

id love someone to be able to try a layout of the cmos switching schematic, i have tried to do one my self.  but it really is an art trying to keep the board down as small as you can!
My one is actually bigger than the circuit I'm going to try it in so i need a smaller version.

with relay circuits wont they just pop the same way a normal switch will?

[Silver Blues]

Not that I've seen.

I did just do up a vero for Mictester's CMOS switch that's just a hair bigger than Paul's original, if you want to try that:



I'm sorry I couldn't get the LED CLR on the board (I hate doing LEDs as much as the next guy) but I wanted to keep it as small as possible.

The dual CMOS one is a bit tougher because of the two large ICs and the relay that you need to get fit on the board. I saved space on the above one because I arranged it all vertically, but that won't really get you anywhere with Keen's. It's not easy, you're right

[oasisman]

Wow that was fast thank you so much for that,as soon as I buy my next lot of stuff this is what I shall be trying.

I was under the impression that the rg keen bypass did not use a relay it uses a cd4013 does it not?

[Silver Blues]

Haha no problem, I actually did this one for myself last night but since you asked I have no problem sharing it  Give it a once-over first to make sure I haven't botched something lol.

Ah yes you're right, my mistake. Well perhaps then it won't be so bad - I'll give it a try.

EDIT nah. It seems simple on the surface, but there's no way I can get it to a reasonable size. This is the reason I was never all that interested in this circuit, too much biasing to fuck around with which greatly expands the board. Every input needing a resistor and sometimes an electrolytic capacitor is not a recipe for a small board. Not to mention you need two more transistors and their associated baggage to clock the 4013 and for an indicator. This one would be best on a PCB.

I'm sure you don't want to go for microcontrollers, but I have a layout for another FSB-based ATTiny85 bypass module that's quite small. The cost of entry isn't too bad either, via the magic of eBay

[oasisman]

So you have actually built this yeah, is it completely silent?

I brought a blue 3pdt switch as that seems to be what everyone else uses.  So last night I built a Marshall Bluesbreaker wired up the switch and the switch is louder that the alpha dpdt switches i normally use, also the switch is really hard to stomp compared to them.

I can tell it is just the switch noise coming through the amp now, 'cause if i press down lightly on the switch the thud is nearly completely eliminated; more so on the alpha that the blue 3pdt switches.

I just really want completely silent switching on my pedals! My friend who has alot of pedals keeps making fun of me as I'm being so anal about this little problem, he just tells me that is the way it is.  But i just cant accept that!

I cant wait to try out your vero layout.  Just gotta wait to get paid as i have already brought a ton of stuff to build with this month and the wife wont be too happy if i go spending more so soon.

[Silver Blues]

I haven't built this particular circuit (yet), but the reviews are favorable for certain. The ones I have used are dead silent, there's no switching noise at all, I don't see why this would be any different (it's the same relay, just a different actuator).

I use the blue 3PDTs all the time and haven't noticed any noise. Sure you can hear the mechanical clack from the contacts switching but that doesn't come through the amp.

EDIT I updated the layout just a tiny bit to fix a stupid I made.

[Silver Blues]

Oasisman - I'm not sure if you're still looking to try this layout. I've verified and corrected it and posted in in Contributions. It works wonderfully, I think you'll be satisfied.