toner transfer question(s)...

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

hi mates...
how do you do it? toner transfer on enclosures.

i would love a step by step guide in "how to" section.
.
i'm loosing my mind here.
months now i'm trying this method and i can only get some really poor transfers once at 20 tries
i'm using a color copy coated glossy paper at 135g/m2. laser printer of course.
i go crazy with sanding the enclosure. it gets really shine and clean.
but after ironing for 10/15/20/25 even after an hour  i get nothing even close to what i see in tutorials...i've read almost everything on the net, and i must confess i'm really confused.for example some say to deep the enclosure in cold water, some other say hot.

how do you guys work on this.
thanks.
Savvas

[jivedanson]

This is the guide I use:

http://diy-guitar-effects.tumblr.com/etching

Mine haven't quite come out looking quite that nice, mind you; I always get bits of toner that fail to adhere to the case no matter how hard I go at the iron (and if you go TOO hard on the paper, you'll tear it).  Best solution I've found is doing manual touching-up after the fact with a marker to fill in any spots that the toner missed--seems to do the trick OK.

Of course, still haven't found the sweet spot for the actual chemical etching yet, but that's another story...

[Sensei Tim]

I follow this method mostly, but have some other tricks:

1.  when you first put the iron on the paper to transfer the toner, just leave the iron in one place for about 1-2 min and don't move it. you'll hear some fizzing/popping (at least i do) which i think is the toner melting.  after this it is safe to move the iron around without risking shifting the paper.

2.  use a brayer roller to help the toner adhere to the enclosure.

3.  warm to hot  ferric chloride helps a lot more than room temperature ferric chloride.  use a double pot like a bains marie or fill the sink with hot water and put your plastic etch tub into it to warm the Ferric Chloride indirectly.  the etch rates will go up and should give you a cleaner etch.

4.  sanding sucks. if you can find pre-sanded enclosures go that route.   it took me 10-15 minutes with a belt sanding at 160 grit to get a 1590BB enclosure smooth and flat enough - and i still need to do 220 & 400 grit wet sanding before i can even think about etching.

5.  if you insist on sanding, use a sanding block or mount your sandpaper onto a flat surface.


This video is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cg4UoS6ecY

[rocket88]

I've said that I would do one for a long time, but haven't had time. I'll try to do get it done today as I have some time later.

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

thanks guys.
i've already read those links.

i'm starting to think that my problem is that i print the image on the paper one day, but i iron it on the enclosure 2 or 3 days after. i've read somewhere that the fresher the print is the better the transfer ends up.
did anyone noticed that???

also the results are way much better (almost perfect in some cases) on pre-painted and baked enclosures i bought. but on pure aluminum, no matter how much i sant it, it's a total disaster...

pleeeeaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!! help a poor guy....
i don't want to go back to stencil and spray painting....

[Sensei Tim]

Ive waited weeks between printing and applying the toner. I don't aee why it would matter.

What grit are you sanding the enclosure to?  Are you cleaning the enclosure with acetone ot similar solvent before trying the toner transfer?

I heard a lot of other people with similar frustrations.   It usually comes down to prep,  toner brand,  or paper.

Imho, a brayer roller is a must have when it comes to toner transfer.

On 2015-09-10 6:20 AM, "ξεναγος νεκροπολης [via Guitar FX Layouts]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> thanks guys.
> i've already read those links.
>
> i'm starting to think that my problem is that i print the image on the paper one day, but i iron it on the enclosure 2 or 3 days after. i've read somewhere that the fresher the print is the better the transfer ends up.
> did anyone noticed that???
>
> also the results are way much better (almost perfect in some cases) on pre-painted and baked enclosures i bought. but on pure aluminum, no matter how much i sant it, it's a total disaster...
>
> pleeeeaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!! help a poor guy....
> i don't want to go back to stencil and spray painting....
>
> ________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
> http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/toner-transfer-question-s-tp24278p24319.html
> To unsubscribe from toner transfer question(s)..., click here.
> NAML

[Freppo]

Here is my method

1. Sand down the enclosure. I start with 240 grit and end with 320 grit and sand only in one direction. It takes me 20-30 minutes to get it smooth. Change sandpaper often.. You can go finer grit if you want it shinier, but 320 is fine for me.

2. Print the layout with your laser printer with the highest quality settings. I use magazine paper, than thin kinda glossy type. I take pages from old magazines that has mostly text (that they are used already doesn't matter since it's printed with ink). Sports magazines with a section of results in the end is a good place to find pages with mostly text. I had terrible results using photo paper, but using magazine paper did the trick for me.

3. Clean the enclosure with aceton or some other alcohol. This is very important. Otherwise you will have residue from the sanding and grease, fingerprints ect still there even if it looks clean.

4. Heat up the iron, then lay it on top of the enclosure/paper for about 1-2 minutes. Then firmly press down for about 30 seconds. Now the paper should have stuck in place enough to start pressing and moving around the tip of the iron until you can see the prints through the paper evenly. This takes me about 10-15 minutes. Now and then I rest my arm and just let the iron rest on the enclosure.

5. Final step, and very important. Press the iron down firmly covering the whole top of the enclosure for about one minute. Then quickly but gently remove the paper. This way, no residue at all from the paper gets stuck on the enclosure if it's hot enough. Paper residue can be avoided completley, and I personally consider it a failure when I doing transfers.

When pressing and moving around the enclosure, be careful to not press too hard so the paper moves.  This can result in a smeared transfer. Also, I've found that it's better to drill the enclosure after making the transfer, or else the holes might makes scrathes in the iron that will ruin it.

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

mmm...i see...so fresher print will do nothing...
anyway.
i'm using smirdex fine blocks.
and this paper
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Color-Copy-Coated-Gloss-Paper/dp/B001JYJ6LK
i clean with acetone and i'm using prints from a photocopy shop with laser printer.
i don't know...maybe i should go to an other photocopier.

i'll definitely buy a brayer roller too..

thanks man.
i'll report back
Savvas

[Sensei Tim]

I have heard some people say that they get better results with certain brands of printers/toner than others.

I'm using an HP laser with an HP toner cartridge at work on HP glossy presentation paper and it seems to work fine for me. haven't tried it with other printers.

good luck!

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

thanks freepo...you might have just showed me my mistake...i might have some really bad sandpapers
i have those 4 all of which are from different companies...
p150
p180
p220
p240 all those for metal they said
and a p320 for wood...
now...
the p150 is the roughest in touch, then goes p240,p320(wood),p220 and the smoothest is p180.
this was the way i was using them.from roughest to smoothest.
do you suggest that i should start sandind with the smoothest??and then end with the roughest?
was i so stupid?
oh.my.god....!!!

[Sensei Tim]

No.

Start with the coarsest sandpaper (lower number) and work your way up to higher numbers.

It doesn't really matter if it's "for wood" or "for metal".  sandpaper for wood is usually aluminum oxide and is intended for dry sanding only. it will just wear out sooner.

I would go 180 grit, 220 grid, and then finish with 320 or 400 grit.  the 180 grit is optional - depends if your enclosure if rough to begin with.  you should finish with wet sanding, tho. it will give you the best finish. the sandpaper for wetsanding is usually black.

[skeletonghost]

The best advice was given to me by Freppo, I had tried using glossy photo-paper and similar following the advice of online tutorials and it never seemed to work that well. Following his advice I tried using glossy-magazine paper (I ripped a few sheets out of a Time magazine) it made a world of difference.

[Beaker]

"I would go 180 grit, 220 grid, and then finish with 320 or 400 grit.  the 180 grit is optional - depends if your enclosure if rough to begin with.  you should finish with wet sanding, tho. it will give you the best finish. the sandpaper for wetsanding is usually black."

Be careful here guys, especially those for whom English is not your main language.

We tend to refer to all abrasive papers as "sandpaper". Do no use sandpaper - it is only any good for sanding wood. Cheap sandpaper is especially useless as the grit size is all over the place - you will end up with large grains of grit, even on "fine" grade paper.

What you need to buy is "wet and dry" abrasive paper - usually found in auto (car) parts and accessory shops. As Tim mentioned it is usually black though it can be grey,green or even white, with usually either a grey or blue backing paper . It should have aluminium oxide (for the rough grades) or silicon carbide (for the fine grades) abrasive particles.

As usual, getting a good result relies on good preparation - so no different to the prep involved when spray painting. Here are a few tips (most are mentioned already).

#1. Give the enclosure a good wash, blow or dust off between grades.

#2. Use wet for the finishing grade - soak the paper in water for ten minutes before use. You can dry it out and re-use it. Used wet the paper lasts much longer than using it dry - so it saves you money! (You can use the rougher grades wet too if you like.)

#3. Start with the smallest number paper e.g. 180 grit, and work up to the highest number, e.g. 600 grit. How fine you want to go is up to you.

#4. Perfectionists may want to finish off with a fine or very fine Scothbrite pad at this stage.

#5. Thoroughly wash in hot soapy water after you have finished sanding, then dry.

#6. Thoroughly clean with acetone, on a J cloth or something similar, until totally, (and I mean totally) clean.

#7. Once cleaned in acetone, do not touch  the enclosure with your fingers - use disposable plastic gloves! As mentioned, any trace of grease or dirt from your fingers with prevent the transfer from sticking properly. If you do touch it at any stage by accident, wash off again with acetone.

I've never done an acid etch on an enclosure, but I do know my prep!

[ξεναγος νεκροπολης]

problem solved...i just bought an hp laserjet cp1025 color.

this was the end of my problems...i guess the laser printers in those shops i went to print, weren't good for toner transfer.
now the transfer is really easy and clean. i just have to experiment a little bit more.
thank you guys!
Savvas

[Beaker]

I'm glad you got it sorted Savvas - happy etching!

I've just given way to temptation and bought a toaster oven! £20 in Aldi here in the UK.