Bass pedal advice

[MAO]

I have a buddy who asked for a clean boost pedal that will not color or add dirt to the tone of a bass with non-active pickups. He wants to bring out the natural tone from the instrument.

He'd also like to use a stellar type tone control to find the sweet spot for any bass.

And last, he'd like to be able to compress either the highs or lows, depending on the particular bass. For instance he said at times he picks up a 5 string, eveything sounds tight except the B string.  

He likes tight attack.

Any suggestions on pedal(s)

[Beaker]

That's actually quite a list of requirements.

You could use something like the Xotic RC Bass Booster that is highly recommended, and modify the tone stack to a rotary switch for Stellartone effect.

The compression part is trickier - you could add two fairly simple compressors of your choice tuned for high/low band duties.

[rocket88]

i have to agree with beaker on his suggestion of the Xotic Bass Booster to get a fairly transparent boost with a tone control. if the tone control isn't as important i highly suggest the Catalinbread Sagrado Poblano Picoso, which is the AMZ mosfet booster. super transparent with just a hint of sparkle/mid boost, and has a fantastic boosting capability, all on top of being super small/simple to build. really can't say enough good about it. i'm sure you could add a tonestack to it if necessary.

as far as compression goes, i would build a stand alone compressor in the same enclosure. i'd wire it up so the boost was after the compressor so it didn't drive the compressor and have them wired to individual switches so i could turn the compressor on or off. for a transparent compressor i'd do the BJF Pale Green Compressor. i've heard good things about how good, natural, and transparent it is. it's actually on my build list, just too many fuzz and od's still to do. hahaha

[negativefx]

Catalinbread Sagrado Poblano Picoso

+1000.   One of the first pedals I built and I used it for a couple years on my bass board.  It's AWESOME.  My guitar player now uses it on his board.

[Beaker]

The problem with most compressors is that they are full frequency range. If he wants seperate compression of high frequencies and low frequencies, you should look at parametric dual band compressors, like Trace Elliot use. Unfortuntely there's not a lot of them about in pedal form.

Either that or use two seperate "tuned" compressors.

BYOC now do a parametric dual band:

http://byocelectronics.com/pmbcinstructions.pdf

You could get a PCB or draw up a vero layout - schematic is at the bottom.

Unfortunately I have no real idea about how well it works, or how good it sounds.

[rocket88]

honestly beaker i completely missed that. since that's the case you're right about parametric parametric dual band. when i saw transparent and compressor my brain sorta finished the sentence. lol

in any event still i'd still go with a full frequency compressor more for consistency of tone across the strings. just my opinion.

[MAO]

As usual, great advice guys, thank you! Hope I can pay it back someday.

Based on the request and your suggestions, I think I'll try to cram these 3 into a 1590BB:


1. BYOC Parametric Multi-Band Compressor (vero of course!)

2. catalinbread sagrado poblano picoso

3. Craig Anderton passive tone control (varitone) with 12 positions and Mark Hammer's suggested switching using a mini 2P4T rotary selecting bypass, low cut, high cut, notch filter.

Each of the 3 "modules" able to be switched in or out along with a master bypass switch.

Seems like that should satisfy all the requirements.  

Do you think there would be any merit to adding an order switcher for any of them?

   

[Beaker]

"in any event still i'd still go with a full frequency compressor more for consistency of tone across the strings. just my opinion."

Yeah, I probably would too if it was for me, but the customers always right, right? Personally I don't like compression on a bass at all - love it on guitar, don't like on bass. But then I don't like 5 string basses either!

[Beaker]

That sounds like a really excellent choice MAO.

One tip for the Sagrado - try a 2N7000 (reversed) instead of a BS170. Makes for a cleaner boost, which might keep your guy happy. The BS170 is clean but gets a bit gritty when turned up high, the 2N7000 stays clean all the way up. I built one for a pro bass playing friend, and he auditioned both for a while before settling on the 2N7000. (He has plenty of grit/dirt/filth options already!).

You could put a call out to Nocentelli, and see if the frequency range on the compressor is right for a 5 string. As he is the LT SPICE master, he could help you tune it just right. It might be perfect as stock, but I really don't know anything about this pedal, other than it exists! Worth checking the BYOC forum for info.

I suggest compressor-to-tone control-to-boost for order, not sure if an order switcher is worth the effort really.

 I would be tempted to "tie" the tone control to the boost (because it's a passive tone control), as if it were one pedal, then have seperate footswitches for comp and boost (as if your booster has a built in tone control).

 Rather than individual switches and a master, I would go for two switches placed close enough together so you can hit both with one stomp - like on Visual Sounds double pedals. But that's just the KISS in me - I always try to think of the simplest way to do do something.

Someone else might have a better plan though!

[rocket88]

Got to agree about compressors on bass, never really used or use one. I built the transmorgrifier and modded it for bass, it's fantastic don't get me wrong, but I just can't bond with it. I figure maybe trying a different one I may change my tone about using compressors on bass.

I would go with the order:

 comp -> boost -> tone control with the boost and tone control tied together

With the comp in front you don't have to worry about it getting driven by the boost, and since the tonestack is passive and the booster you're planning on using is super load and super clean, I would use the tonestack to make it more manageable and allows you to shape you're tone after running through everything. And as beaker mentioned I would have 2 switches to control the comp & boost/tonestack independently.

[MAO]

I've read quite a bit about the Parametric Multi-Band Compressor, there are some suggested mods regarding noise levels here. Hopefully these mods will make it studio worthy.  

Haven't seen anything yet regarding frequency range, but the pedal artwork shows the Cross Over Frequency control labeled as 44Hz full CCW, 800Hz at noon and 3.3kHz full CW. It appears Beaker's note about the range may be an issue as the guy who requested the pedal specifically mentioned he often finds he'd like to tighten up the B string while these rest of the bass sounds tight.

Thanks for the tip, I did shoot a PM to Nocentelli at FSB

Here's the schematic if someone would like to take a look.  

[Beaker]

Sorry MAO - sent you on a wild goose chase. It's Cylens who you want to ask about doing a LT SPICE simulation to tune the compressor for 5 string, not Nocentelli.

[Muadzin]

I'm a HUGE fan of compressors on bass guitar. If only because as when I was manning the FOH mixing disk there was no greater annoyance then having some jump around enthusiastic yokel on the bass assaulting his strings being all over the place with his volume. At least the asshole obnoxiously loud guitarists tended to be fairly consistent in their volume output (obnoxiously loud), but those jump around enthusiastic yokels, never. So we always used compressors on the bass channel's inserts set as limiters.

[Beaker]

Have to agree with you there Muadzin - I don't like compressors on my bass, but other guys sometimes NEED them, and like you say, it's always the muppets who think jumping around like Flea covers for a lack of talent and technique.

Is yokel a Dutch word too Muadzin, or does it have an equivalent?

[Muadzin]

I wasn't quote sure so I checked on Google translate (for what its worth):

an uneducated and unsophisticated person from the countryside.
"She confirmed my suspicions of country folk being idiotic yokels as correct."

So it seems like a euphemism for hillbilly.

Some Dutch yokels in action:

[MAO]

I haven't settled on the Compressor just yet, but still think the Parametric Dual with the noise improvement mods will probably meet the requested needs.  

I took a modular approach and have built the Sagrado and a modified Craig Anderton Passive Tone Control as separate boards.

The Sagrado adds some grit on the higher boost settings. Unfortunately I don't have access to a bass guitar so I'm testing it with my Les Paul w/Dimarzio Tone Zone humbuckers.  I did use Beaker's suggested 2n7000 which biased in at 5.0v with the 62k resistor.  

Not sure if the grit is a result of my pickup's output or the biasing of the 2n7000. Or maybe just headroom with a 9v supply?

I'm considering adding a resistor between the Boost pot lug 3 and ground to limit the amount of available boost.  

Here's the layout for the modified CA Passive Tone Control. I expanded the caps from 5 to 12 and added the Mark Hammer suggested DPDT on/off/on switch to add a treble cut and a low cut option to the original Varitone control as described here on DIY 


Cap values to taste, probably starting at 680p for guitar and 1n5 for bass.