Classic Rock Overdrive recommendations

[motterpaul]

I am looking for an over-the-top lead overdrive. The Crunchbox was very close, but t I just couldn't maintain the over-the-top gain and still reduce the low end that was making it too bassy for me. I did all the suggested changes and it does sound better, but I lost that heavy sustain I love.

The Menatone None-so-Black with its charge pump and different tone (matched my setup better) replaced it. It does not have as much gritty gain as I might like, but it has great headroom and sustain.

But now I am considering the following based on reading different forums, any suggestions are appreciated on which one has the most sustain and also a good range of tone controls:

I am thinking Lovepedal Eleven, Menatone Red Snapper or Saturn Five.

By the way, I tried the DynaRed and a few others like it, but I didn't really hear the beef.

I play PRS with HBs, JCM800 2204, 2 Greenback Hs.

[Chris60601]

Have a look at the HAO Rust Driver. And if you want something a bit on the unique side, look at the 3 Legged Dog :)

[motterpaul]

I built that on your recommendation a long time ago. It's not bad but not enough gain for what I want.

On 11/26/2016 7:29 PM, Chris60601 [via Guitar FX Layouts] wrote:

Have a look at the HAO Rust Driver.

---

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/Classic-Rock-Overdrive-recommendations-tp34455p34543.html

To unsubscribe from Classic Rock Overdrive recommendations, click here.
NAML

[Frank_NH]

Hey Paul.  If you want a simple high gain distortion (think Boston lead tone), try the Sili-face.  I posted a layout here:

http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/ROG-Sili-Face-2-Distortion-tp31690.html

It's an easy build and I was really surprise how good it sounded.  There's no tone control, but you could tack on a simple tone control if you think you needed it.  Have fun.

[Beaker]

I know you don't want to hear the "F" word, but stay out of overdrive territory. IMO they don't make good lead tone pedals.

If you listen to Led Zep, Black Sabbath or just about every other "classic" rock band, they all used Fuzzes fo solo tones.

Jimi Page used a Fuzz Face, Tony Iommi a Superfuzz. Mick Ronson used Tonebenders... You get the idea.

[Neil mcNasty]

Beaker is a 100% correct! You are looking in the wrong category!
What you describe is called Fuzz!

But here are some tips if you insist of using the overdrive method:
- If you want over the top overdrive, then stacking pedals is a way to go.
My guess (based on what you write) is that you will not find a single pedal that will satisfy you, but a combination of two might.
- Another option is to add a booster up front of the overdrive.
A boost (set at full with trimmers instead of pots) can also easily be added inside the enclosure of one of your OD pedals to remove the need for an extra pedal on the board.
- Third option is to use a treble/mid-range boost after your OD to boost an already good overdrive sound and cut some lows at the same time.
Crank it up full blast so that your amp distort the same as before and therefore compensates for the reduction of amp-distortion that often happens when reducing low end. This should cut it trough the mix, but it might also cut your head off!

My guess is that the third option will have the best chance to get you there, as it will: Keep the sound that you like using the Crunchbox - Boost your signal for your solos/leads - and remove the too heavy bottom end when boosting it.

Also be aware of the fact that your sound and sustain, is probably not caused by your pedal alone, but by a combination of the pedal and your amp's distortion, by how the pedal pushes your amp and makes it respond, distort and compress. The low end coming out of the Cruchbox will yield more sustain than less bottom heavy pedals, as this makes the amp compress more...

Hope this helps to find your magic!

[Muadzin]

I'm a big fan of the Skreddy P19 for leads. Any Big Muff  basically, as long as you add the mids switch. Also the Wampler Velvet Fuzz is killer.

[nocentelli]

Beaker wrote

 Jimi Page used a Fuzz Face, Tony Iommi a Superfuzz. Mick Ronson used
Tonebenders... You get the idea.

I have never heard that before: It's well documented that Jimi HENDRIX used a fuzzface (Jimmy Page supposedly used a Tonebender Ge MK2 type pedal on a few solos, but no definitive evidence so far), but I have never seen Tony Iommi linked to a Superfuzz (if he used one, it must have been well after the classic-era Sabbath of the first four albums) which could hardly be described as a "classic rock" sound.  

[Frank_NH]

I should note that Sili-Face is a silicon fuzz face variant, but it sounds much smoother than a typical fuzz (e.g. no low end gating).

Classic Rock encompasses a very wide range of tones, from the fuzz tones of Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Ronson, to the high power amp grind of Van Halen, the Who, AC/DC.  No one pedal fits that range, and so we need to decide what specific tone we're after.  Which, of course, is why we build pedals...

[motterpaul]

I know those guys used fuzzes, and I have a tonebender III that works great, but Hendrix/Page were back when even a Marshall Superlead did not have a gain stage, it was a single channel amp and surprisingly clean until cranked. These days there are a lot of pedals that get me close. Some even have too much gain (Diesel Diefet). I was just curious about more "outside the box" recommendations.

Between the Talons, Crunchbox, and some FET designs I have gotten real close. I think what I need is a Crunchbox combined with a heavy-duty tone-stack, possibly boxed with an ROG tonemender.  It might be cool to use that switching order stacking diagram, too, so I could even push the crunchbox with the ROG (like stacking a boost with an overdrive)

Or I need to start over on the Crunchbox and find the combination of caps that retain the heavy gain but tame the low end. Or figure out how to add a highpass (bass control) filter for the Crunchbox. My lack of design knowledge is showing here.

Has anyone ever noticed this... most of the the pedal tone stacks are based on guitar amp tone stacks, so they are basically passive with a recovery stage. But this is especially noticeable in the midrange. I find very few midrange controls that actually boost in an active range like 1k (maybe this is too tricky to design because it is both low pass and high pass). Most mid controls are 90% cut, and very little boost.

Look at the Duncan tone calculator if you are not sure what I mean.

[Hozy31]

Have you thought of the Boss PW-2 power overdrive or to save youself $$$s the Behringer Power overedrive PO300. It sounds like the sort of thing you may be after. I have the Behringer model and at the moment its closest to my amp on my pedal floor and it kicks ass. I might be on the wrong end of the stick here but check it out https://youtu.be/McPhGrfXBfM

[Pavlos]

The comments about classic rock (In it's many and varied forms) and the use of various fuzz pedals are very apt, but there is also the use of treble boosters, and earlier distortions (OD250 etc) to consider as well. And possibly the most important one to remember, the art of the volume and tone pots on your guitar! with the relatively limited options available way back when, most guitarists would only have the volume up full for leads/solos, and have it backed off to varying degrees for rhythm and 'clean' tones, perhaps with a fuzz/booster/distortion for added flavour. The amp of course would likely be running pretty loud as well so there is also that 'cooking amp'compression and the added interaction of lots of air being moved to take into account, so natural feedback should probably also be taken into account.

[motterpaul]

I agree about some of the classics. The DOD 250 is a pretty heavy overdrive.

I think fuzzes have their place - especially in recording, but for gigging you need something that works (tonally) with your other pedals. You don't have time to dial your amp in to something else just so you can use a Fuzz Face for one solo.

[motterpaul]

Frank_NH wrote

Classic Rock encompasses a very wide range of tones, from the fuzz tones of Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Ronson, to the high power amp grind of Van Halen, the Who, AC/DC.  No one pedal fits that range, and so we need to decide what specific tone we're after.  Which, of course, is why we build pedals...

If I could pinpoint it I would go with Ronson / Boston type tones. The Crunchbox is real damn close, so are many others. I am just looking for something with a ton of sustain.  The "none so black" is really close, especially if you dial up the bias it is great - but it tends to get noisy.

[Pavlos]

well it might be worth a go to approach it from the other way round? find a pedal that gives you the lead sound you want, then fit your other tones around it? or maybe have two loops, one for your lead sound, and the other one for the rest of your driven sounds?

[motterpaul]

I do have a loop for my lead tone, but what I could do is add an EQ to that loop. Good idea. Then I would go back to the Crunchbox. But - hey, if was to rephrase this question it would be this ---

Which overdrive is the gainiest, with tons of sustain, a low noisefloor, and a good set of tone controls?

[motterpaul]

Talons is a good one - but once again, Talons has the midrange problem where it literally sounds best & louder with the midrange scooped. Both Diefet and AMT B1 (the fet-based heavy overdrives) are the same way -- they both sound best with the midrange scooped.

[Pavlos]

Hmm, I might be wrong but are you trying to add more gain than you really need? Probably all stuff that you've already thought of and tried but it can be very easy to end up with the sonic fingerprints of different gain stages fighting each other or over emphasizing certain frequencies, and a lot of drive tones aren't as high gain as we perceive them to be, but eq'd to sit perfectly within the track. If you haven't tried it already it could be worth trying a bit less of a gain boost and sculpting the mids instead, maybe using an eq with a healthy amount of clean(ish) boost to kick everything up a gear for your lead sound?

The quest for the tone you hear in your head is never ending, every time you think you are getting close, you find another little tweak that almost gets you there, but not quite, because there is always another little nuance that eludes you.....and so the quest continues....

[motterpaul]

Pavlos - I don't think so. I have a pretty good ear for gain and I would know if I was overdriving a stage. That is one reason I generally do not stack drives.  Sometimes a boost after a drive can help if all you need is more volume, but I don't generally push a lot of gain, even to push my tubes harder.

For example, I use a JCM800 on the low input (very clean) so any gain I get is purely from a pedal. That way I get the full range of tone from an amp from crystal clean to hair. I am not the type to back off a volume pot on my guitar on an overdriven amp and call that a "clean sound." To me (and I don't speak for others, just me) - that is a very low gain sound, but not a "clean tone."

[Muadzin]

If you need to stack pedals to get more gain then maybe you should get a single pedal with more gain. It's not the 60's and 70's any more. We don't have to do it the way they did it back then. If only because we no longer can. You take your big ass vintage Marshall Superlead to a gig, crank it on full and boost it with a booster/treblebooster and you will get a lifetime ban of ever performing in that venue again. And others too because venues talk to each other. So behave.

Also I don't plan to arse around with the volumeand/or tone knobs on my guitar to get a clean sound. As chances are I will forget about them and then wonder what the f*** happened to my guitar signal. I can be really forgetful at times (I'll probably end up with dementia or something). With pedals I can see that stuff is on or not, anything that doesn't have a LED on the other hand is up for grabs. I've had gigs where this happened to me because I was stupid enough to build a switcher without LED's and I didn't know that certain loops where on or not.