Community Poll: Amps?

[rocket88]

Hey guys. Since mark made the announcement about some of us who are new admins, I thought it's now an appropriate time to gauge community interest in something that I've thought about for awhile and recently since I've had no time to build, started working on. I wanted to know how many people would be interested in having a turretboard amp section? Myself and Travis have been talking about it for awhile, and I started working on a few while on a plane going to and coming back from vacation. Btw, both are old sunn amps, 1st gen model t, and 2000s bass amp. I've also got a few Marshall's (JCM800, superbass,etc), original orange amps (graphic, or120,etc), other sunn amps, mesa 400, just to name a few in my sight.

The only concern we have is we're now stepping into high voltage and amperage, which is very dangerous, not to mention expensive, and as a result may take longer to verify. It takes longer to make a layout thsts neat, and cohesive, for instance the model t preamp section took me about 3-4 hours. I also did it on paper, so it probably will be quicker using the usual software, but I think everyone gets the point.

But, since we all have a voice and I know some people mentioned it in the past, should we start a section?

[dexxyy]

Hell yeah, BUT and its a big but, I'm not sure it should really be a completely open section. I've built 4 amps (2 from kits, 2 from schems) and modded numerous others so I'm fully aware of the dangers involved. This is way out of 9v territory, this is going from " I fried my ic" or " my cap blew" to oops I'm fuckin dead. I think this would need to be 2 sections, 1, unverified, where the layout creator and some knowledgeable others can work on projects until it is verified and then release it into section 2 for general consumption.
Personally I would be extremely wary of publishing an unverified layout to a public forum, that shit can kill.

[Beaker]

My view is "why not?". If people want it, and others can supply it, it has to be a good thing.

However I 100% agree with everything Dexxyy has said, so I won't bother repeating any of his points. Safety has to be paramount here.

As far a what to build goes, Sunn amps are a great choice for us Europeans, as they are like hens teeth here, but interest in them seems to increase daily. They are top of my son's hit list for sure!

Personally I'd like to see some of the old Silvertone, Valco, Magnatone type amps.

Also preamps seem really popular - I would love to see a bunch of standalone tagboard preamps for some of these amps - especially Sunn :0))))

[Chris60601]

Indeed. Toss in some Ampeg's  please *cough* SVT *cough*

[rocket88]

haha, if i can find the schemes sure. i've just lusted after a sunn since i got to play an 2000s once..... and i mean once. i went back the next day and it was gone, this was also when i was in middle school. btw, the model t is pretty much done, got to finish the power tube section off, and make it a little more organized. so many amps that we cant get for a reasonable price, hence the reason i've been doing more and more research into building an amp.

anyways, i completely agree about the safety issue, which has been the biggest issue when travis and i talked about it. i mean there is a known, DEATH CAP so there is a major concern if someone who isn't really ready for it trying it.

so the next question would be, if we make an amp section, how do determine who is qualified for access?

again, this is just a discussion at this point, so i make no promises as to what's going to go down.

btw, beaker i'ld totally be down for going for a FET amp in a box pedal for the sunn amps, it will take a little experimentation to get it right.

oh, and chris i've got a few ampegs in the queue too, so if it were to go forward i would totally be down for it.

[Frank_NH]

I think it's a great idea.  You could initially focus on simple 1W - 5W designs, and go from there.  But make sure to have lots of "DANGER, DANGER, DANGER!!!" signs everywhere so that people realize that the voltages involved are lethal.

Personally, I want to build a 5E3 clone but I'll have to wait until I can begin sourcing the parts...

[tabbycat]

am totally on for ampage. i like those old mat-amp beasts, like the one-knob fuzz versions of amps. real ludd shit... i play rock, duh, one louder.... schreeeeech.

but as already said, i think there would have to be some kind of pre-post screening by someone who knows the score before anything life-threatening got thrown out there under the gfx banner. death is a bit tiresome and generally best avoided, or at least saved for old age.

would be worth spending time over at fsb to se how they negotiate this one. but you have my support for your proposal.

[Travis]

As rocket and I were talking about this, I was thinking it would be safest if we only posted amp layouts that were already verified, to minimize the chance of some disastrous safety oversight.

Of course with the cost and work involved with building an amp, that's no small feat. At the very least, people need to be aware that testing an unverified amp layout could be more risky, for the user safety and for your expensive amp parts

With that said, I would love to see amp layouts here. I've never built a tube amp and would love to start

By the way, I think tabbycat's idea for a synth category sounds really great. I'm digging the synth related posts around here lately

[Chris60601]

To possibly add (but not hijack the thread), perhaps its time to start looking into SMD layouts. This would allow folks to do 2 things; convert current layouts and possibly introduce newer (as in modern and previously untouchable designs).

---

From: [hidden email]
Sent: ‎8/‎27/‎2015 11:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Community Poll: Amps?

As rocket and I were talking about this, I was thinking it would be safest if we only posted amp layouts that were already verified, to minimize the chance of some disastrous safety oversight.

Of course with the cost and work involved with building an amp, that's no small feat. At the very least, people need to be aware that testing an unverified amp layout could be more risky, for the user safety and for your expensive amp parts

With that said, I would love to see amp layouts here. I've never built a tube amp and would love to start

By the way, I think tabbycat's idea for a synth category sounds really great. I'm digging the synth related posts around here lately

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NAML

[Ciaran Haslett]

I think the cost/safety concerns would inhibit all but the most dedicated builder.  But I think I know how it can be made cheaper, safer and more active.

Develop a set of standardised Power Amp sections....6L6 based, EL34 based, single ended, Push Pull etc.

Contributors can then post Preamps that interface with these power sections in some kind of standard way (I know this may be tricky giving the was some amps use the phase inverter).

But it does carry the benefit of making layouts so much cheaper/faster to be verified.  Then just sit back watch the Fender/Marshall/Orange/Mesa Preamp Freak Monster Bastard amp Javi will fit into a 1590A

[Ubertech_s]

It may be worth considering having a separate section for the amp builds - you sign an additional disclaimer to join

"I understand I will be sticking my fingers into things I shouldnt, and if I end up dead it is in no way connected to the site but my own stupid fault"

Also a sticky thread listing dos and dont of all the components and potential death inducing operations

I would be up for it, but as I have no experience in these sort of voltages I really would want to know what I am dealing with and the ways I can blow my one parts off before I started.

[Luke51411]

The safety concern is legitimate but there are already tons of resources and layouts available with a quick google search. Most of the kits I've seen don't have great documentation, basically just layouts and schematics. I don't see any reason to not post amp layouts with warnings but I think accompanying documentation would be good as well. I think this would be a good addition.
I've seen a bunch of submini amp builds with nixie power supply, I think it might be cool to have some layouts for some of those amps as they might be a little more accessible to most members since the cost is a little bit less and probably a little bit less dangerous?

[rocket88]

ciaran: i think that's a really cool and good idea. the only problem i see is that if the goal of the amp section is to clone known amps, they don't all have the same power section. funny enough, in my search and research of amp schematics i have found that there are a few amps that really are just copies of other amps with a few value changes. case in point the fender bassman is the template for a few marshalls, and the sunn model t just to name a few. also, depending on how and where the tonestack is placed in the amp it will react completely different. so to presume that means i would think to do something like that we need a small R&D team. which isn't out of the question.

luke: i've seen a bunch of mini amps done with those submini tubes, which actually got me thinking about a full on amp build. i would be totally down for working on making submini clones of amps. i'll have to do some more research on how to go from full on amp to submini to see how to do it right. i think it could be a good start.

chris: not sure sure about smd vero layouts, because i don't know the amount of interest in it. i think doing a pcb layout section would be awesome, which could include smd.

also, i've read some other comments about some improvements, like going through the request section and removing what doesn't have a schematic, and moving those that have layouts to the contributions section. travis and i were talking about splitting the contributions section again to have a verified and non-verified section. would help with people being worried if a layout is verified or not, but it would mean 2 more folders under the layouts folder, or having three (verified layouts, unverified layouts, and circuit designs). what do you think about that?

[Neil mcNasty]

This is a very good idea!!!
Go for it guys!!!

Also remeber to add a "low volt amps" section, for those who are starting out and want to learn the basics before jumping into a 450v project....
Sopht Amps has some nice stuff in this category.

[Bugsi]

I'm new to this forum, but I have decades of experience with repairing power amplifiers, and have been turning my attentions towards building guitar effects pedals and amplifiers.  I have some comments:

1. A power amplifier section is a great idea, but there's no reason why it has to be limited to tube amplifiers.  Solid state amplifiers offer a great opportunity for people coming from building stripboard pedal circuits.  Solid state amps can also run off much lower voltage, and be much safer to work with.  Many of the chipamps can even run off 9 volts, from either batteries or small "wall-wart" adapters.  

2. Other than the typical even-order harmonics of tubes and often gentle clipping, or power-rail sag characteristics of tube amplifiers; the generally respected characteristics of a power amplifier is that they offer essentially perfectly linear gain with minimal noise and distortion.  To that end, solid-state chipamps do this really really well, they're inexpensive, and are perfect candidates for stripboard projects.  I've been building some pedal circuits on larger pieces of stripboard and followed the pedal-effect circuits with low-power chipamps with *REALLY* good results.  I'm polishing up a build guide on a combination of a Box Of Hall reverb that goes into a TS808 Tubescreamer followed by a low-power chipamp.  (I call it a "Reverb Screamer".)  Built into a small Hammond 7" x 5" x 2" aluminum chassis, it makes a terrific little amp head with gobs of gain, clean/crunch switch, tone, reverb, dwell, and output volume.  These are terrific little projects that would fit nicely in an amplifier-specific section.

3. Tube amp projects can be very rewarding, despite their extra expense and high-voltage danger.  If you added a tube amp section, I wouldn't want to see it limited to just turret-board designs.  While tubes don't lend themselves to stripboard circuit building, they're right at home with etched circuit boards.  My first tube amp build was the Firefly project over at ax84.com.  Their forum is an excellent example of an online community that helps each other with a set of common, verified tube-amp builds.  They do such a good job actually, that I kind of question whether another forum dedicated to the same type of builds would be successful.  On the other hand, a section for solid-state power amp guides for common chipamps or discrete transistor circuits on stripboard would be something I'd find really useful.

I hope these suggestions help!