Fender Blues Junior CLONE ? Is it possible ?

[Darkus3]

Hi there !

I'm new to this hobby but i'm studing electronics-engineering  at school in france and i'm planning out to copy a amps like the blues junior.
VIDEO

First question, am i crazy ? Like, is it really possible to copy it on a vero board ?

Give me your advice from your experience, is it possible and suitable ?

SCHEMATIC

Also i want to add a legal-subject question. Since we copy guitar-pedals with source schematics, those are surely due to reverse-engenering right? So can we sell our copy  legaly without paying any tax at the source compagny ?

Thx in advance for your time !

[Travis]

It is possible, but vero is probably not the best medium to use. At least if you do use vero you'll probably want to use .15" pitch for the larger components

You can sell clones of whatever you want really, you just can't try to sell it as the original item. So don't use fender logos or trademarked names basically

[Beaker]

Bonjour Darcus, bienvenue!

While it is possible to build an amp on vero, it is not reccomended. tagboard or turretboard are much better methods for building amps, due to the high voltages involved.

Here is a good example:

http://el34world.com/Hoffman/Blues_Junior_Build.htm


To answer your second question, yes, you are correct. You can make a clone of a pedal, and sell it without any legal problems, as long as you avoid using any of the original pedals trademarks (company name, pedal name, graphics).

For example, you can make an Electro Harmoix Big Muff clone, and sell it on ebay, or on your own website - just give it a different name and appearance.

[knight_yyz]

Does tone of the amp change when you do this?  I think this looks so much cooler, but what's the point when it's all hidden?  

[rocket88]

Nope. Tone is controlled by the values of the caps and resistors, not the medium it's on.

[Beaker]

"Does tone of the amp change when you do this?  I think this looks so much cooler, but what's the point when it's all hidden?"

As Rocket says, the tone will not change, as the tone is a result of the component values used. However you must use high voltage components in an amplifier, which are physically larger than the ones we usually use in a pedal.

Typically we can use 1/4 Watt or even 1/8 Watt resistors in a pedal, but in a tube ampilfier, some of the resistors need to be 2 Watts - and these are much larger. Likewise, we can use 16 Volt capacitors for a 9 Volt pedal, but a tube amplifier needs 400 Volt capacitors, when run at 220 Volts, and as a result are much larger.

Turret board or tag board builds are the perfect size to accomodate these much larger components

Tube amps also generate a lot of heat, so your resistors and capacitors need to to be high temperature reistant, which also adds to your problems.

Turret board and tag board are also the preffered medium for servicing and repairs, as it makes the amp extremely easy to work on.

Turret and tag board are also extremely strong, highly heat resistant, and can withstand shocks and rough handling.

"what's the point when it's all hidden?"  Everything that I have listed above.  

[Darkus3]

Thank you very much for your anwser, so vero May not be the Best hère, well that was expected so some routing job Will be require since I never used tagboard or turret board I Will study this method :)
. But I can try to use vero with using one pist each 2 or 3 dot to make place for component.

I Will take you inform in my progress of this project. Btw i'm so exiting to begin  ;)

[Beaker]

You buy Tagboard with the tags already fixed, so is easier to use in that respect.

Turretboard will need to be drilled and have the turrets fixed in place, so it needs a bit more work. The advantage is that you you get the turret connectors exactly where you need them to be, so that makes mounting the components much easier.

You can also buy pre-drilled turretboards from many places on the internet (there is a guy in France selling them, though I can't remember his name). Here is one example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turret-Terminal-Board-For-5F6A-Fender-Tweed-4X10-Bassman-Amp-Build-/310699574102?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4857234356

And here is an example of a pre-assembled kit turretboard:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turret-Board-Fender-Deluxe-5E3-Tweed-amp-DIY-Kit-guitar-amplifiers-/121694656534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c55911816

[Frank_NH]

I looked at the link to the Hoffman amps Blues Junior Conversion.  Whoa!  The PCB looked like one of our vero effects (9mm pots??? eeeshh), so I could see why one would consider using vero.  Tube amps (or any high power amp) are different though in that you're dealing with lethal voltages, and I would be very nervous with the thin copper traces on a vero board.  All tube amps should be point-to-point wired, but that's just me...

[Travis]

If you use .15" vero the strips are spaced out further from eachother, so a bridge is unlikely, but I'd still use tagboard/turretboard/eyelet

[Beaker]

If you want to try tagboard out, I suggest that you build one of these, a Mosrite Fuzzrite on tagboard. I have built a couple of these, and they sound great:


http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/mosrite-fuzzrite.html

[Marbles]

Just to hack this thread for a second (sorry) out of curiosity.. Could you tell me what transistors you used for the fuzzrite? There has been a bit of confusion regarding these as far as I could see.. Judging your musical taste, I'm curious what you thought would be good :)

[Beaker]

I have tried the usual suspects with this particular tagboard layout - 2N3904, 2N5088 and 2N2222 metal cans.

Take your  pick really, 2N5088 will give slightly more gain, 2N2222 slightly more treble fizz - which seeing as it's a really trebley circuit, may or may not be to your taste. I ended up using 2N3904.

Mirosol put up another vero layout for a Germanium Fuzzrite, and I have built that one too using MP38s. Sounds equally awesome - but different.

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/mosrite-ge-fuzzrite.html

[Travis]

Since I got my Ge Fuzzrite I've noticed that none of the schems or layouts actually match my pedal. Then I started looking at every gutshot I could find and noticed that there are several different variations. Sometimes you see two 10M, sometimes a 10M and a 1M, sometimes two 1M.

Early units had .1 film caps instead of .5 ceramic. Some units have a .002 and a .001, some just two .002

The electrolytic cap changes a lot and in fact in my unit it is not a DC filter cap like every schem and layout shows, but it's an emitter bypass cap on Q2 (giving it more gain).

It's hard to tell from gutshots but I suspect there are others where the electro is used as an emitter bypass cap and not a DC filter cap. So beaker you may like toying with that.

[Darkus3]

Beaker thank for your links, it will help me very much ! Thank you all of you for your advice, I look forward to show you some of my work soon. I thnik i will choos turretboard where i can drill and make my board and if all work i will put all that online for you guys !

[Beaker]

Thanks Travis, I was aware that there was no "definative" values for the Fuzzrite - despite what the published schematics might suggest. Like the Big Muff, I believe they played around with it and altered values quite extensively (or ran out of parts)!

Your suggestions help though, as it gives me pointers for experimentation, as it is one of my favourite fuzzes.

Darkus, you are welcome, if we can help you out any more, we will!

[Travis]

No prob beaker. Feel free to shoot me an email if you want more info or the schem or layout for my particular unit (which has the definitive ge Fuzzrite sound for sure)

[Beaker]

Ooh, yes please!

[Beaker]

Travis the layout you sent me looks very similar to Mark's Ge Fuzzrite layout, (his has a 10M and a IM - yours has 1M and 1M).
I think the electro cap is the same arrangement as yours?

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/mosrite-ge-fuzzrite.html

[Travis]

To see the differences, you have to look carefully at not only the component values but also the way they are connected. There are a couple differences surrounding Q2 emitter.

For one, the Q2 emitter is directly connected to ground in mark's layout. You'll see in my layout that it is not grounded, but connected to the 25uf cap which goes to ground. This is called an emitter bypass cap and it increases the gain of Q2

You may also notice that the 40n on the left is connected to this same junction of the 25uf and Q2 emitter, which is an even more strange difference. Looking at the schematic, that usually connects to the Q2 base, not the emitter

Refer to the gutshots I sent you where you can hopefully see that pretty clearly as well.