Hammond boxes vs. Chinese lookalikes

[Silver Blues]

So recently, I got a commission for a pedal from a friend (a Si Sunface), and while I was browsing for the parts I needed, I stumbled upon these. Every pedal I've built has used genuine Hammond boxes (1590Bs or BBs), but the price on these was intriguing, to say the least, and the pictures promised decent quality, so I ordered one.

I was not disappointed.

First impressions were good. The top was well polished with a few minor scratches, and the lid, though noticeably thicker than on the Hammonds, fit perfectly. While the fit and finish on the Hammond cases is pristine, these are not - there was some flashing on a number of surfaces, especially the screw holes in the lid and the case itself; this was nothing a few seconds of filing could not fix. Inside, there were some fairly large areas of rough aluminum, and a number of circular marks from the mold that had sharp edges. The walls were notably thinner than on the Hammonds, and interestingly, not uniform (each side had a different-thickness wall by a few tenths of a millimeter).

I ended up filing off the flashing and sanding the entire thing down with 220-grit emery paper, which took away the rough patches nicely. I don't paint the bottoms of my pedals (because what for), and the metal was a little dinged, so I gave it a brushed treatment with the 220 which worked out quite well. It needed a little work, but is quite the alternative to an actual 1590B.

Has anyone else used these? What do you think? Should I just stop shelling out the cash for the real thing?

[inefficiency]

I've ordered a bunch in the past from various sellers over there.

So far I've had mixed results.

They pretty much all have the rough insides that you mention and some of them have thin sides.

One thing that they all seem to share in common is that they dent and scratch REALLY easily. Some of them have quite nice shiny finishes, so I wanted to leave them unpainted for a nice "chrome" type look, but they just get scratched so easily that they end up looking shitty in no time. Another problem with that is that they're so inconsistent with the finish - some of them are polished to a shine, whereas others are scratched to hell. I ordered 5 1590A style ones and not one of them had a finish like another.

They all seem slightly "softer" than hammond ones and the like. One in particular that I ordered was really weird to drill into. The metal just felt so soft.

Another issue I had was that a couple of them only came with 3 screws for the lid, which was annoying - luckily I have spares. The screws they give you are mega cheap too and it's quite easy to damage them because the threads in the holes suck. I have a couple where the screws are pretty close to being rounded off.

At the same time though; they're very cheap and do the job. I don't mind saving a few bucks on them for personal projects, but I don't think I would feel comfortable making anything to sell with them.

[rocket88]

I've gotten similar looking ones from smallbear, they sell them as Taiwanese enclosures. I used one, and the other is going to be used to make a test box, as I wasn't really pleased with them, mostly due to the inconsistency in the side wall thickness. But, when you look at the price of them vs the Hammond ones, well I use the ones from tayda that are supposed to be like hammonds as well, I prefer the tayda ones. There's more consistency and it's like $0.10 more. But that's just my opinion.

[Silver Blues]

I see. This is kind of what I expected too - I think I got a good one and perhaps my luck will not hold out in the future. The walls, although not terribly uniform, were all within reasonable tolerances of the actual Hammond spec (2mm). I painted the one I got (and fairly heavily, I might add - I did one coat of primer and three coats of color, I'm just waiting for the color to dry to the point I can write labels on it before I do at least two coats of clear) so I'm not too worried about cosmetic problems, and the bottom is going to get fucked up anyway so whatever.

I didn't notice the softness, TBH. These felt the same to drill as the ones I normally get. I'd imagine you're right though, that they use softer aluminum than Hammond does. I was lucky to get four screws  but it was comical in that the screws came loose in the box along with a sealed, unbroken baggie

Cheap, yes. Anyone that knows me well knows how meticulous I generally am, especially now that I'm selling this one, and this particular box passed my once-over; I expect it will be just fine but don't know that I'd do it again.

[Silver Blues]

Haha yeah, the wall thickness thing kind of threw me for a loop but it didn't lead to any fit problems and wasn't noticeable from the outside, so I let it go.

It's damn hard to beat Hammond, but it was a good try I suppose

[inefficiency]

Yeah, it was only one of them that was mega soft and weird and I didn't order from that seller again. The rest of them obviously weren't as sturdy as Hammond, but that soft one was just odd.

It's a bit of a pain because the enclosure is the most expensive part of any build I do and currently in the UK my only choices seem to be those Chinese ones or the expensive Hammond ones.

I could really do with finding somewhere to buy a bunch of them wholesale for pretty cheap.

I remember someone mentioned a site that they use all he time, I think it might have been Geiri. You can't order straight from the site though, you need to call up and order. Perhaps some Chinese wholesaler - not too sure.

[Silver Blues]

Just out of curiosity, how much do you pay for the Hammonds over there? IIRC (and I probably don't), it's like $12 plus tax (so $13.80) for a B and $15 plus tax ($17.25) for a BB here, which doesn't sound too bad, especially for the quality, but it adds up. You're very right, the enclosure is always the most expensive part, and I'm always praying I don't mess up the drilling and such every time

[inefficiency]

I think they're about the same to be honest. I've had them from various places that were slightly cheaper, but they were like the Electro Harmonix enclosures that are all grainy and textured, which is fine if you're going to paint them, but not great for me otherwise.

My main issue is that I want to stock up and buying 100 or more of them at that price isn't really too feasible for me, but if I could get a wholesaler or something, it would be a bit easier for me.

I can deal with it for now, but any way you can make things cheaper always helps!

[dbat69]

Hi Inefficiency

I've been getting my boxes from Tayda which are reasonable quality and at a decent price.  However they have stopped giving the 15% discount on enclosures (which was great as the discount effectively paid for the postage to the UK)

I've been thinking about using some of the other sellers on eBay like the one mentioned as they work out cheaper than Tayda now

The seller you mentioned above is I believe 'chinadia' or something like that - I'll hunt it out and post it back here.  With this seller, you email him with what you want and get a price.

[dbat69]

It is China Daier  -  I knew it was 'something like that'  
http://www.chinadaier.com/

his email is   [e-mail]

I think it was Javi who uses him for boxes (but I could be wrong again )

[Beaker]

Yes Geiri uses those boxes from Chinadaier - he reckons they are fine.

Inneficiency I got a load of BB boxes from Time Travel Audio in Edinburgh. Nice brushed finish - just watch the burrs on the bottom edge of the lids - they will need filling off before they end up in your fingers. No markings on them, and obviously Chinese, but nice thick walls. I would certainly order more as i think they are pretty good.

They were offering A, B and BB boxes, but look like they have sold out of A size.

Not the cheapest around, but free postage and arrived next day - can't say fairer than that.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Die-Cast-Hammond-1590BB-STYLE-enclosure-project-stomp-box-120x95x34mm-/261719807735?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&var=&hash=item3cefb756f7

[inefficiency]

Funnily enough, I just ordered a few 1590Bs from Time Travel Audio because I needed some quick. They're pretty reasonable compared to the other non-Chinese eBay sellers.

Yeah, Daier was the one I was thinking about. I leafed through the bargains thread and it seems that they can only do packs of 9 in Chinapost, so you need to use another courier if you want more, which is slightly more expensive (not that it matters at that kinda price).

I'm just worried about the import tax. The UK customs guys essentially hold your stuff hostage until you pay your tax on it and it's never a reasonable price. Generally when ordering small envelopes with transistors and stuff it's fine and gets through without a hitch, but a massive box of enclosures might be an issue.

That's the same reason I haven't ordered from Tayda yet. I have access to everything I need except a large supply of enclosures, which will most likely result in customs shafting me. The last time they got me was a few years back - I ordered a pedal kit from the states for £30 and the customs tax was £40. Totally not worth it.

[dbat69]

The only time I've been ransomed by Customs (and ripped off by the post office for their cut) was when I had a large order from Tayda which came in a carboard box (and included a dozen boxes or so).  Now I tend to keep the order smaller and only get a few boxes at a time and they have been ok so far (keeping fingers crossed )

[Vince]

I'm in the UK and order from Tayda a lot. The only time I had to pay import tax was when I spent about $150.00 and it was pretty heavy. Most of the time I try and keep it under $100 and it's fine. I think they label the packets lower to avoid customs as well. I got hammered from the US a while ago as well when I bought a Floyd Rose trem part for $20 and had to pay an extra 20 odd quid!?.. all because they priced the packet at over £15. Major rip-off.

As for enclosures, I was using Eddystones, they're very cheap but the consistency of quality was annoying, sometimes they were perfect and other times you had to file the edges and the tops would have dips in them. I use Hammond now to save all that elbow grease...  

[inefficiency]

Nice, Vince - cheers.

You'll know all too well the perils of ordering from the US.... I'll get on Tayda for my next order and give it a shot.

I've seen your builds and I did notice the Eddystone enclosures. I know a few other guys who use/used them too. I'll bear in mind that they're a bit rough around the edges at times.

[rocket88]

Don't forget if the shipping is ridiculous let me and you can ship it to me, then I can ship it to you as a gift to help avoid issues. I got your back

[Beaker]

Yes the import duty is no laughing matter. I got a quote from China Daier and although the cost per box was amazing, the postage charge was very high. When I calculated the import duty, it worked out only marginally cheaper than if I bought then from Time Travel Audio. I have been stung too many times by Customs to make it worth the risk.

 Always remember that the postage charge is included in the calculation for customs charges, so they can still knobble you for a low cost item with high postage cost.

I'm sure Geiri is able to get away with it as he lives in Iceland, which is not in the EU.

[inefficiency]

Nice one, Rocket. I'll definitely bear that in mind if I decide to go for it!

Customs and Tax is so messed up in the UK. Geiri is a lucky man!

[Vince]

Cheers, Rocket. And vice versa, anything in the UK I can send as a gift.

Yes, the customs charges are a disgrace. I once asked Royal Mail what the hell a 'handling charge' is as surely you handle everything anyway... I was told a long, long time ago that if you can, take the parcel from their hand and walk away. They then have to peruse you legally to obtain the 'charge'. Not sure how effective that is, plus my postman is built like a brick shit-house...

[tjdracz]

What about the middle ground? Not a proper Hammond but the Eddystone one? Cheaper and work as intended