Newbie questions and doubts.

[Silver Blues]

Regarding the tools, something else helpful is a pair of snub-nosed toothless-jaw pliers. I found a pair at my local electronics store, and they're amazing for bending leads and otherwise finagling with parts without damaging them.

[inefficiency]

When I first started, not too long ago, I bought a bunch of shitty cheap tools. Pair of combined wire-strippers and snips for like £3, a soldering iron for £10 etc etc etc....

Bad idea.

I should have just bought decent tools in the first place. It seemed like I was saving money at the time, but I just had to replace them with good tools anyway, so I ended up spending more.

I made a thread on here called "Tool Recommendation" or something to that effect. I'd suggest newbies take a look there for some equipment advice from guys that have been doing it longer. I now own pretty much everything that the guys here suggested and it's made my life so much easier.

[rocket88]

i think for tools getting some cutters that can get close to the solder joint, helps tremendously to make things super clean. i use my gf's old nail cutters like these


they went missing, so she got new ones, i found them and into the tool box they went.

i don't use strippers, well wire strippers that is, i use my pocket knife that has a serrated part that perfectly fits 22-24AWG wire. this is a newer version of my knife.


to cut my boards i use a typical small x-acto knife to score the where i want to make my cut, and then use a cutter that looks like a pair of pliers and uses a razorblade to make the cut. due to thinness, sharpness of the blade, and how it puts pressure i get a super clean cut.
these are similar to mine


i haven't bought a variable soldering iron, but i recently bought a new weller that has 3 LED's that help light up where you're soldering. it didn't make my soldering much better, as i learned and been using my dad's soldering iron from the 60's or 70's, but it's a real nice addition, and helps when soldering inside the enclosure.

[motterpaul]

As an admitted noob who has received some of the ire of more experienced people here, I want to say a couple of things. First of all, I did find the first post in this thread somewhat offensive for all the assumptions it makes about us.

I have only been doing this seriously for about three months, but it is something I have wanted to do my entire life but didn't have time. I am no stranger to forums however, with over 5000 posts at TGP and having worked professionally as a board moderator for 19 years starting with Motley Fool then at my own website which I sold for 7 figures in 2006. Oh shit, did that sound like bragging? I apologize but suggesting your superiority based on your achievements is perfectly in keeping with the grain of this thread.

Which makes me a complete loser. I am a noob who is not ashamed to admit what I don't know. A person who openly admits his stupidity comes as unexpected to some people, but I assume most people will respect the fact that I am trying. Ah, but you know what they say about assumptions.

So, here is where I take offense: the suggestion that I have not done my research, don't own the right tools or know how to solder. I have wired recording studio patch bays in Grammy-winning studios where I was on staff. I now play in two gigging bands. I know audio signal flow and all about guitars & amps. I have even worked as an audio tech in a "Stereos to the Stars" store in NY City called Sound by Singer.

But building pedals is new to me.

For tools I have: needle nose, bent-nose tweezers, wire clippers, wire strippers, magnifying glass, a flashlight (not mentioned but great for reading ICs or Trannys), 40 wt solder gun, solder wick (love that stuff), solder suckers, sizers for lead bends, forceps, a lighted magnifier but something I like better; a suction clamp that sticks to the desk top to work as an extra hand, exacto-knife, drill, new drill bits, heavy-duty scissors, double-sided tape, a trimpot screwdriver, and more...

I have Craig Andertons books on pedals, Electronics for Guitarists and more. I devoured Beavis, RunOffGroove and other places long before I even found this site. One of the best things I have read online is Wampler's "Indyguitarist" guide to building overdrives (I could leave a link but I think I was lucky to find it and that it was only meant to be up for few weeks but left up since 2008).

For parts I have about 1000 trannys of 11 different types; (darlington, mosfet, JFet, NPN, PNP, Ge) all labeled with pinouts by me, hundreds of ICs of various types (mostly 1, 2 op-amp, charge pump, dumble-type lower gain, etc), dozens of foot switches, 1000s of LEDS, resistors, caps, diodes, off-board pots and trimpots in all values - everything you guys probably have.

I own a DMM and know how to use it, I can test diodes and read HFE on transistors. I know how to check DC values (On 20v), and always check continuity on the back of my boards to make sure all soldering is correct and rarely make a mistake. I've yet to have a solder sliver fool me for more than a few minutes anyway.

I have successfully built about 7 circuits, boxed four of them, and did it all without your help, thank you.  I have created my own vero layouts out of schematics using DIYcreator. Electronics Assistant is also a great tool.

But still, I AM A NOOB. And I take offense to people assuming that people like me have not tried our best to learn this stuff. The best way to learn it is to read, but also to DO it. Because as I have said in other posts; Noobs don't know what they don't know, and you find out what you don't know by doing.

When I get tripped up and ask for help here, it is BECAUSE I have done the research and cannot find the answer. Once I had forgotten what size CLR to use for my LED, I searched for 30 minutes before I asked here. No one helped me. I had already done this:  Google, and all I saw was energy efficiency calculators for light bulbs at Home Depot, etc. Yes, I had forgotten it is voltage dependent. But that is what I mean by "noobs don't know what they don't know". Would it have killed someone to just say "try 2.2k?" - no, instead we get a 1000-word diatribe against noob stupid questions.

I built a circuit here three times, once wrong (my fault) but I fixed it (second build) and then rebuilt it from scratch (3rd build). It never worked and it was not that hard but had a charge pump and 2 FETs that needed biasing (with 10k trims). The original schematic had been updated three or four times (which is good, but shows it wasn't as simple as it appeared) The datasheet on the transistor read "obsolete". The diode hads been replaced with new model number, the offboard wiring was not the same as the example here because the LED was reversed, and there was a DPDT switch that required two connections but it wasn't marked that way. I got help from IVIark (who I just figured out is named Mark), but it was followed up by a few snarky comments from others ("the problem is between the chair and the computer") as if I have no right to ask a question when I am confused - as if I didn't try to figure it out on my own. That left me not wanting to come back here for almost a week.

My professional job for the last 19 years (including the site I built from scratch and sold) is "forum moderator" and one thing I would never do is insult someone for lack of knowledge in an area where I am an expert.

This is complicated stuff and to assume everyone has to be on your level of expertise before they can speak up here is actually bizarre logic. You could be talking to brain surgeon or the guy who invented post-its. But more likely you will encounter people like me who just need basic information to get past a roadblock.

Here are the things it is hard for noobs to learn, based on my recent experience of trying to learn from the ground up. Grounding examples online are all over the place. Most of my circuit problems have been bad ground noise. If it is so easy, why did it take me so long to find the answers I need? I don't know, but I know that intuitively I just ground everything first. That stuff takes experience to learn.

I never saw it explained anywhere that 24-gauge stranded wire is the de-facto standard. Vero takes 22 just fine and it is stronger, but I bought some PCBs that were made for 24 and I was like "WTF?"

But the experienced people here have a whole set of knowledge that I am today hearing we noobs should already fully know before we arrive. Unfortunately - that will NEVER happen. Not all of us have an electronics background. I applaud the guys who do, who "get it" intuitively. I am a very good guitarist, I write for a living (in other words I have creative skills), but I am not a math wiz and I don't know if I will ever actually use OHMs law or the formula for finding the right CLR.

Which is (by the way) is....

Okay - MY rant is over. Let me apologize in advance if I offended anyone.

[rocket88]

motter, i think you're taking offense for no reason at all. i don't think javi, or anyone at the beginning, myself included, are trying to make it seem as though we are superior to anyone else due to our ability to make pedals or for any other reason, nor are you superior for selling some website for 7 figures.

there's nothing to take personally at all. there have been tons of posts i've made with no responses, which is either due to people not knowing, other posts pushing mine to the next page, or no just answers it's not big deal. i've posted questions all over DIYSB and FSB and i've been torn apart by some of the more well known people in the community, it happens, get over it and move on, it's not personal. the funny thing is that now, over time not only have they provided help, but have directed me where to get information, examples, and actually made me increased my knowledge. the thing is that most, not all, but most people new to building are not looking to learn and just think it's as easy as putting parts together and it works. if it doesn't they post that it doesn't work, no pictures, and nothing to really go on to help them, and get pissy that they're not getting help.

i myself have not been doing this for that long, maybe 1 1/2 - 2years and i know i don't know it all, and ask sometimes you get what you don't want to hear, shit happens. i'm just a teacher, no millionaire like yourself, i have not worked for famous studios, nor been a moderator on some website, all i've done and do is teach, build effects, build guitars & basses from scratch, build and race cars, pinstripe, built a local studio, play in some local bands, working on building amps, have done genetic research, discovered genes, have multiple publications for genetic research as well as how students learn..... we all can play a game were we say things we've done to try and 1up someone else, but i don't think anything i've done makes me better, nor gives me an air of superiority over anyone else. those in the community that do that we all know and can't stand *cough* fuller *cough*....excuse me.

having the tools and the parts does not make someone a good builder, nor give them the skills needed to build. i know people that have go out and spend 100k on a car, and act like they can race them, and you know what? they can't. you know why? because just having the car doesn't make you know it and know how to drive it. mine i built with my bare hands, i know what she's going to do given a situation, and know when she's going to bite me if i push her to hard, i know the car inside and out.

something you need to realize is just googling for an answer doesn't work. it's the same thing i deal with with my students. you should be looking for information dealing with the problem not an exact question, otherwise you're not nor going to. the thing is someone who is learning needs to ask the right question to get an answer and an answer that will help them.

also, the wampler books, which i have too, are not really that good. there's a lot of misinformation in them, and does not really go into detail. i could suggest about 5-10 different books that would be a good read, if you want to know then and are willing to take the time to learn. i spent literally an entire summer learning electrical engineering before is started building, and i still had stupid questions and do stupid things. it's part of the process.

i think at the end of my long winded comment is, if you're a noob, accept it, take things with a grain of sand, relax, and learn. if you're not willing to do that then you shouldn't build. i know you weren't trying to come off as condescending, but i'm sorry buddy, but if you didn't make the comment about "selling your website for 7 figures" i really wouldn't have been annoyed at your comment and rant, that was just really unnecessary and uncalled for.

just a side note, i've tried helping you a bunch of times, and not once did i see any comment from anyone like the one you posted. everything seemed to be pretty positive.

[motterpaul]

Just a couple more things - briefly...

There is no such thing a "negative ground" - that's an oxymoron - there is +9v and there is ground.

Also - I really hate the word "asshole" - it is the male version of the word "cunt" and I think it should be abolished. I never find it amusing, especially in thread about people like me.

Next - the best post here is #2 from Frank NH...  especially the troubleshooting tips. I need to make an audio probe and have seen instructions. Do you feed the circuit with an oscillator?  

Also, I do need a "testing platform" although I have enough materials to hook up DC and jacks quickly, I think it is a great idea. So is the one from Mark about leaving long leads for your pots and using terminal strips along with a set of off-board pots you hook up as needed.

Those are the best tips here. Troubleshooting a bad circuit is the hardest thing. I actually wish Beavis had more breadboard layouts. I think they are a great way to test values and it is so easy to fix mistakes. But the layouts here are really spectacular, great variety and easy to read.

My personal problem is that I get too jazzed up and sometimes build too fast (that's when I make mistakes) and fixing VERO circuits is really pretty hard if you are using the "hunt & peck" troubleshooting method. But that is why I keep practicing.

I also see great comments where people make suggestions for better values. I just want to point out that it is confusing for newcomers to see verified circuits and comments that suggest different values. I always feel better when Mark replies - yeah, good fix, I have incorporated it into my layout. Good work, Mark.

I do wish there was possibly a better system for logging possible value changes and what they do. I know this isn't my site and I rarely tell people what to do with their sites. I am just saying this leads to much confusion by newbies.

For example, in my failed circuit some 4 or 5 people had asked if the diodes I also had were good as replacements. No one replied. There is no way to know.

I just saw in a post above someone saying "the diodes are not in the signal path, so they would not affect the tone"  What would help troubleshooting a lot (if someone asks - if they have a problem) - might be a quick rundown of what each component is doing in the circuit.

... voltage divider / charge pump / low pass filter/ clipping diodes/ DC-blocking diodes / RC tone circuit/ charge pump....

If you want to help someone trouble shoot, and you can look at a circuit and immediately see what it does (Like I cannot yet do, but will someday) - it would help a lot to add that to the comments.

Hey - I fully understanding having a site where you talk to your fellow experts and have high level conversations. There is NOTHING wrong with that. Just maybe have a plan to help the newbies a little and with a little patience you can bring them along.

I know this is a "free site" we are not paying anything to be here, but I see the ads and one thing I do know about is monetizing web sites. The more user friendly this place becomes, the more it will pay to keep it going.

[rocket88]

i hear you on what you mean about the troubleshooting help. i think the problem and frustration comes in when someone asks for debugging help. it's the WAY someone asks. no one is there to play with the circuit and to see what's going on. in the example you gave, of saying the diodes are not in the signal path, look at the context of what and how the help was being asked. if memory serves me the description given was about the tone, so the response about the diodes was completely acceptable. you have to remember anyone that comments and tries to give help is taking time out of their day to help, they many not have tons of time to give someone a complete rundown of what each component does. i've been in the same situation before, especially at the beginning, and from my point of view i feel like that's part of the responsibility of the builder to go out and learn. there is so much free info out there about pedal building, components, and such you need to get out there and learn, not just build and ask.

my opinion may be based on my experience, my background, and what i did before building anything, but it's of the utmost importance to read as much as you can. i don't think someone should go and learn electrical engineering like i did, but get an understanding of what each component does, what the values mean, what certain parts look like, etc. there are multiple circuits that are used over and over and given a different name, or some parts value changes how the circuit works, like a booster vs a buffer. think about it. if you take the big muff for instance, you can think about it as 4 boosters together. the first input stage feeds the second stage (first clipping stage), which feeds the third stage (second clipping stage), which goes into the tone stage (passive high/low pass filter), which has a recovery stage at the end because the passive tone stage cuts the output. btw, knowing the difference between an high pass filter, and low pass filter is super important especially if you're modifying pedals,. changing them will give the tone pot a completely different sweep of affected frequencies.

also, for me i don't identify the specific parts on the actual vero, i use the schematic then find those parts on the vero. it's much easier and makes more sense then trying to read the vero.

side note: mark has stated that the ads are not from him, but Nabble. he gets no money from them.

[JaviCAP]

Hi, Mr. SevenFigures, as it seems that my post offended you, let me tell you that there are a few things in your answer that I can't understad quite well.

First of all, and let me use this phrase, even if you seem to be easily offended, I don't give a fuck if you sold you site for seven figures, if you have built / wired Grammy arwarded studios, or even less if you play guitar very well. Let's say that when someone uses this data as a "You don't know who I am" introduction, first thing that comes to my mind is "Great, now go and fuck yourself", well, what really comes to my mind is "Vale, ahora te metes un dedo por el culo y le das vueltas", but it has not an exact translation.

Second, really shocks me that someone that has wired 1st class recording studios and owns thousands of opamps, trannies, leds and so on, doesn't know how to wire a led or figure which resistor value to use. You did a search on google and had no results... I search "led resistor", and first result I get, has all the information, included a calculator:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Choosing-The-Resistor-To-Use-With-LEDs/?lang=es

Five seconds search and 30 seconds to read. If you spent 30 minutes and could not get an answer, I'll say it again: the problem is between the screen and the chair. Yeah, this calculator gives you the minimum resistor value to use, and much bigger ones can be used in order to get the led dimmer, or reduce battery drain if you plan to use the pedal just with batteries. But the main answer is at 35 seconds search.

motterpaul wrote

 was not the same as the example here because the LED was reversed, and there was a DPDT switch that required two connections but it wasn't marked that way

Led was not "reversed". You can put the limiting resistor in the anode or the cathode of the led, doesn't matter where, while it's present. In this layout, as Mark uses to do, if there's some room left, he includes resistor from +V to the anode of the led, so you avoid wiring the  resistor directly on a led pin that is always a relief, when you just have to solder a wire, and not wire + resistor. Once again, your research about wiring a led, was not really brilliant, Mr. SeveFigures.

The connections that you mean, are clearly stated on the layout: one wire from board to Volume 3 and one wire from dpdt to volume 3 too (if I'm not wrong). If you assume that just one wire can go to volume 3 pin, is again your problem, you'll find builds thst need even up to 4-5 wires go to the same pot pin.

Yeah, I know that negative (or positive ground) doesn't exist, there's just +V or -V and ground, but as a (non correct) statement, everybode understands "Positive or negative ground" terms. Yeah, you should say "Ground to positive" or "Ground to negative", but if you allow us, we'll keep using the non correct, but widespread term.

"the diodes are not in the signal path, so they would not affect the tone" It was me. I said that in the case of the Distorion+, the diodes were not in the signal path, and so, if not working, they would no (obviously) clip the signal, but he builder could find signal at the output. As you like things exact, I should have said that the diodes don't block the signal path. Yes, they're in the signal path, but the signal gets not bloicked if the diodes are broken, as it would happen with an input or output cap or resistor. Just to add, that I was trying to help a guy with a non working Distortio+ build, that had not the slightest output, and was asking him to read the ic voltages, and instead of doing that, started to tell me if the problem could be the diodes, the ic, or whatever, everything but measuring the voltages as I asked him.

Verified circuits, doesn't mean that a circuit is not able to work with some other values or components, so, many of us use to give hints about parts that can be swapped, equivalents, and so on. There are many layouts in this site that are not verbatim to the original schematic, they're Mark's interpretation or recommended values. I like  to stick to specifications, and use Mark's layouts as a guide and use original values if possible. If I'm successful at it, I just comment, and people has a wider choice in their builds.

To end up with this post, I'll tell you, that my answer "The problem is between the screen and the chair" was generated by your precedent post in this layout comments, something like the previous

"was not the same as the example here because the LED was reversed, and there was a DPDT switch that required two connections but it wasn't marked that way"

If you don't understan, ask, of course, but don't tell that anything is reversed or that something wasn't marked. The problem is that you don't understand what's written, not that anything lacks or is wrong in the layout. That's the kind of answer that shows that someone pretty arrogant is behind the screen, and figure that, with your first entry in this post, I can see that I was not wrong, do you know, Mr. SeverFigures / Youdon'tknowwhoIam ?

Try to be a little humble, the phrase, "yes I'm a noob building pedals, but I'm millonaire, and I play guitar very well and I build recording studios, so I'm Mr Big even if I still don't know how to build pedals" is nothing but false humility, or better said, a piece of shit.

Regards.

J.

[Heath]

Guys, maybe take a breather from this topic and come back later?  Things are escalating.  

I'm nobody, but I really like this place.  I've mostly given up posting anywhere else because of tempers getting out of hand and the drama escalating (I'm not innocent of those things).  It destroys communities.

Discussions can be had without condescension and vitriol.

As I said, I'm nobody; I'm just saying "please."

[motterpaul]

Geeze, "it isn't what you said, it's how you said it." When did you become my wife? Shall we discuss my feelings about our relationship, now?

I meant the order of the LED and CLR were reversed from what we see in the offline guide. Yeah, as a noob it threw me for a loop, embarrassing in retrospect. But really, are you saying that I am not allowed to ask basic questions here at all, and furthermore, if I do I also have to phrase them in perfect English before I am allowed to speak?

I'm getting a little feeling of Captain Queeg here. "I had them with the Strawberries"

My point is simple - I am not an MIT grad, but don't assume I don't at least try to find answers before I ask questions. I saw that LED calculator online, but these questions were over my head because I am a noob.

 Source voltage? (got that one: 9v)
 diode forward voltage?  - dunno
 diode forward current? - dunno

I am impressed that you always know the forward voltage and forward current of your LEDs in a given circuit, though.

So.... here you go, the NOOB pledge.

I apologize for being so stupid, sir.
I'll try harder sir.
Thank you for keeping me in line, sir.
Don't give up on me sir.

Glad I made your day.

BTW, I am done. I won't be back in this thread. I could push your buttons all day, but I actually kind of like you now.

[rocket88]

agreed heath. i think things escalated quickly. i also don't want it here to be like some other forums, lets just let things go back to the way they've been. let's all just take a chill pill. btw, i got one of those helping hands things and it's awesome. i've been using it to hold the board while i solder in my electrolytics, so they all hang straight and helps prevent me soldering them in leaning. and that cutter i posted before, i forgot to mention that i use it to cut the sockets. it makes such a clean cut that i don't break the plastic of them.

[inefficiency]

Meh.... It's the internet. If people can put your panties in a bunch that easily, you probably shouldn't use it....

Rocket, I have one of those Weller LED soldering irons and the LEDs are great, but on average I can make like 2 or maybe 3 pedals before the tip is a blunt stump and needs replaced.
Maybe it's bad technique - I dunno. I have heard bad things about the Weller screw in tips.

[rocket88]

odd, i use the pointiest one that came with it, and have had no problems. i usually clean the tip after i solder 3-4 components. i wonder why the tip becomes blunt on yours.

[motterpaul]

A couple of things...

I left some important things unsaid, so I wanted to follow up with what was on my mind when I woke up.

First, I apologize for pushing buttons in public, but actually I had no idea Javi would get so upset.

I responded because I perceived his post to be bragging and frankly bullying, as if experts are better the noobs, so we need to know our place. This is how he ended his OP:

So, please, it's always easier to ask and wait for someone to solve your problems, than looking fo info by yourself. But this will point too, if you're a newbie or an asshole noob.

I got the message: Asshole Noobs?  I mentioned that I find the word asshole to be very insulting. I don't feel that is in the spirit of forums like this. Sadly, after I mentioned it I only got more insults and profanity.

To be very clear, I NEVER mean to brag about my accomplishments (I don't find them to be special, really). I only stated my background to show how any bragging about accomplishments sounds offensive, and I explained that in my post. They don't give you the right to talk down to anyone.

Now, I just have one more comment. In the post above Javi says....

"You can put the limiting resistor in the anode or the cathode of the led, doesn't matter where, while it's present."

This doesn't work, and I did my research, only +9 to the anode works, the cathode always has to go to "negative ground". Sorry to be so obvious, but I just wanted it to be clear that I did not miss this gaffe, even though I am the noob.

Here is your research: guitar effects LED wiring - anode cathode

So, dumb questions and answers. let's call it even and move on.

(note: this post is edited. I am trying to keep it toned down).

[rocket88]

i hate to get into this again, but i told you to just let things go. whether you mean to now or not, all you're doing is just provoking a response. while i don't know javi personally, i do know him from the blog, and he has been nothing but helpful to people, including myself, and if you read the initial post he is not angry at all "noobs" or venting about them or even calling specific people out. what he said is, which i agree with him is that if you're new it's ok to ask, but first look for help, and don't ask questions that are readily available, especially those that are posted here, for instance how do i wiring the pedal to the switch, when there's a section specifically for offboard wiring that shows the how/where everything goes.

the fact that all this negativity, anger, and really out of control situation occurred because you took offense to what he said, as if you were specifically calling you out. in fact you keep going after him and what he said, but have ignored what others have, including myself about the situation.

regardless of what someone says, whether you like it or not, you've got to deal with it. words have no power only when you give it to them. if you get offended by someone, too bad, deal with it, that's life. again, we are all adults here, and there's no reason to act like children. not sure how many people are women here, so this comment is not meant to offend them, but everyone needs to grow a pair. if someone says something you don't like get over it. as i've said before, i've literally torn apart by some of the brightest minds in the community, i got over it. i have learned from it. i've become better from it.

the comment "So, please, it's always easier to ask and wait for someone to solve your problems, than looking for info by yourself. But this will point too, if you're a newbie or an asshole noob." i agree with him. he's saying it sarcastically, that's it's easier to ask them to look for answers. if you look at the request page, how many people make requests for things that have either already been requested, or already have a layout, all you have to do is search, use the search bar, it's not that hard. it's annoying to have the same thing asked 9 million times when it's already answered. its like having kids in the car asking over and over "are we there yet?"

the fact that you keep harping on the comment about the "issue is between the chair and the monitor" just shows you're hurt by it, and it's coming off that you want an apology and a pity party,let it go. i'm probably one of, if not the youngest ones here and it makes me sad to know those that are older will act this way. javi not once was bullying you, and i think you're comments should upset him and push his buttons, remember i said they annoyed me too and i didn't even make the original post.

just want to point out, this is the bullshit i have to deal with, with my sophomores and seniors all day, everyday, and i'ld like to be able to walk away from that and deal with adults, especially those that i share common interests with. so enough.

[motterpaul]

Sorry I offended you.

You're right. I really took offense to what he said to me, and I object to his attitude in general. I admit it. Your experience of him is one thing, mine was the opposite. This thread took a turn, but keep in mind the original topic was all his, and it was largely directed at me personally, when I consider I was one of the last newbies he insulted directly in the comments section just before he posted that.

And can I point out that the replies he said to me were far more insulting, profane and ugly than anything I responded with to him? Try looking up the Spanish translation.

I saw it as "keeping it even" when I realized I should have called him out on his wrong diagnosis of LED - CLR circuits.

I apologize though, not for what i said, because I kept it cool, but because I should have backed off when it was requested of me.

But by the same token - just one person sticking for Noobs - or objecting to the way he talked to me, would have been nice. When no one else did, I spoke up for myself.

last word on that.

[Heath]

motterpaul wrote

But by the same token - just one person sticking for Noobs - or objecting to the way he talked to me, would have been nice. When no one else did, I spoke up for myself.

I'm assuming you skipped over my post.  Feel free to go back and read it.

I've also done the same in private messages concerning this topic.

For what it's worth, I've had positive interactions with both you and Javi and considered you both cool guys who I respected and enjoyed reading comments from.  Frankly I think you both showed your asses here and vastly overreacted to each other.

For the record, concerning the LED issue, there was never any argument about which leg goes to ground (cathode) but that you could put the CLR between 9v and Anode -OR- Cathode and ground.  Just clearing that up.

[motterpaul]

Rocket...

I just re-read your posts. Thank you for the offers of help. I was too focused on the personal attacks to see someone else was trying to help me out. I really do apologize.

I appreciate your offers on reading suggestions, and find it interesting you find the Wampler books to be full of mistakes. It makes me wonder what kind of "mistakes"

I am assuming you are talking about copy writing (not copyrighting) mistakes where some editor got values wrong. In other words, I don't think you are saying Wampler doesn't know what he is doing.

At the level I am at - the theory alone in his books seems valuable to me and I probably wouldn't even notice the errors you are talking about.

But in all honesty, I am new to pedals, especially dirt pedals. I use tube preamps for my gain when I play. I "get" the idea of using overdrive pedals and I want to get into it deeper like with a Suhr or a nice 2204, and I know the basics of gain vs, OD, vs Fuzz, plus op-amps, vs trannys, vs diodes, etc. That was what I liked about the Wampler books, I have never seen one book that goes into all of the overdrive types before.

Can I ask what other books you can recommend? And also can I suggest we star a new thread about it?

[motterpaul]

heath, I DID see your post. It was somewhat decent attempt to defend the rights of newbs to ask questions.

And it was probably the best one in this thread - which doesn;t much good about this thread.

The tool tips are all cool - and also should be in a new thread.

I can't believe anyone has a soldering gun with a tip that lasts more then a week of soldering.

[rocket88]

that makes two of us, heath.

the point is, if you feel you've been insulted or whatever by someone, just contact them in private, don't bring things out in the forum as such. it's just ridiculous and childish. but again, again, just to stress the point, you were NEVER mentioned or called out until your post.

i don't really care what you say or think, that's you're right and go at it man, i'm not really offended, it takes a lot more to offend me, it's more of being insulted. i don't know you from a hole in the wall, as we're all behind computer screens, but what bothered me as i said before is i've personally provided you with help, and you're response was like a metaphorical slap in the face, or biting the hand that feeds you kinda thing. i can't and wont speak for anyone else.

motterpaul wrote

But by the same token - just one person sticking for Noobs - or objecting to the way he talked to me, would have been nice. When no one else did, I spoke up for myself.

just saying that wasn't really standing up for anyone, but yourself as you felt offended. and again, look at what he said on the original post, there is nothing wrong with the frustration of someone new doing that, and it's mostly those that are new. again, all of us, myself included have done that, and being on the other side it does get annoying.