Power help.

[Teddeeh]

So im building a big box with around a dozen circuits in for a friend. The main thought on my mind is how to power all of this.
Its all 9v center neg so no charge pumps, centrr pos etc.
Just standard 9v center negative.
But! How should i go about powering all these for the optimum solution?

Ive seen the huminator here and another contributors voodoo labs power brick thingy and im still left scratching my head.
So i reckon telling him around 1a should easily be enough to power if i go with a 9v supply and to build several huminators to filter noise.
What do you guys reckon?
Any other suggestions?
Or should i get some power bricks and internalise then, have each circuit running off its own output on a power brick? To me that option seems idiotproof but also overkill.

[PMowdes]

I saw this a few weeks back, I wondered if it might be useful, especially the capacitance multiplier

https://youtu.be/wopmEyZKnYo

[induction]

Teddeeh wrote

 
How should i go about powering all these for the optimum solution?

The optimum solution depends on the specific circuits, the case material, and the context (touring, studio, home, cabin in the woods).

Ive seen the huminator here and another contributors voodoo labs power brick thingy and im still left scratching my head.
So i reckon telling him around 1a should easily be enough to power if i go with a 9v supply and to build several huminators to filter noise.
What do you guys reckon?
Any other suggestions?
Or should i get some power bricks and internalise then, have each circuit running off its own output on a power brick? To me that option seems idiotproof but also overkill.

One or all of these ideas could work, if you manage the details correctly for the specific use case(s). Multiple bricks is not idiotproof, and overkill depends on context. If the overkill isn't expensive, it often doesn't hurt anything, since it usually just gives robustness to contexts you're not expecting to encounter. That's more of a problem when you productionalize something and make 100k of them, and still want to compete on price. If you're just building one, you can put together an estimate for a range of solutions, and see what level of robustness he's willing to pay for.

If you give us more information about the circuits, and how and where he intends to use the unit, we can give more specific advice.

[Teddeeh]

Sure man, thanks for your time.

So its a bass rig, theres several fuzzes - deluge, animato and idiotbox blower box
A boost
From pedal pcb, the depths, keeley 30ms, and arpinoid (haarp)
B3k, wampler faux analog echo, eqd tentacle and black arts oath. Ive also stripped a ditto looper, and thats now intergrated into the massive enclosure.

I have been considering stripping a noise gate, just a donner or a mooer and placing discretely somewhere for added noise reduction. If needed.
Most likely home use but i wouldnt rule out light, local gigging.

[induction]

I recommend this PSU designed by Rockett88 and me. It has separate regulators for as many outputs as you'd like to make.

There are a few things to think about:

Isolation: If PSU's aren't isolated from each other, they can cause ground loops, which can introduce hum. This is a theoretical concern, and I've never actually seen it happen. (Not to say it doesn't, especially in the vicinity of fog machines, light rigs, PA equipment, etc.) The multi-PSU I linked to is not isolated, but I still recommend it. If your enclosure is metal and grounded, and the PSUs are internal, then ground loops aren't a big deal because the enclosure should screen out stray EM signals. There are isolated multi-PSUs out there, but they generally aren't cheap to buy or make, nor easy to build. Nor worth it, IMHO, unless you actually have ground loop problems.

Regulation: Regulation holds the input voltage at a constant level, meaning hum is largely removed from the power rail. Some circuits can handle dirty power. Some circuits, especially fuzzes and some ods/boosters allow the dirty power signal sneak into the audio path (Fuzz Faces and COT variants are especially bad), and can't be redesigned to fix this problem without changing the tone. Such pedals require regulated PSUs or batteries, and are not even worth owning otherwise (IMHO). Huminators do a decent job on reasonable pedals, many fuzzes are not reasonable pedals. I'll say it again, whoever powers a Fuzz Face with an unregulated PSU does so at their own peril.

 Max current: You have a few delays listed, which are pretty power hungry. Anything digital, including anything PT2399-based will suck down current and dirty up the rails on anything attached to them. I would give each digital circuit its own regulated output. Non-digital circuits usually require very little current, and can often be daisy-chained without problem, but it is possible for some circuits to not play nice together. Trial and error may be necessary.

Separate bricks for each pedal: As I said above, some circuits can handle dirty power just fine. Those circuits can often be powered by whatever cheap adapter you have lying around, as long as the voltage is correct. The more sensitive circuits will need regulated adapters.

Cheaper adapters use a digital chopper circuit to convert the mains voltage into 9VDC. This can dirty up the power rail, and can sometimes cause pedals to interact with each other as they chop at slightly different frequencies, creating whines and whistles that are hard to track down.

Expensive adapters, on the other hand, often have transformers in them. So they dirty up the air around the circuit instead of dirtying up the power rails. This is usually not a problem because the circuit is protected by a grounded, conductive enclosure... Unless you put the transformer inside the enclosure. Then the enclosure doesn't help.

TL/DR: keep the adapter bodies as far away from the circuits and signal wires as you can.

99% of the time, multiple internal adapters will work just fine. Sometimes they'll work great at home, and then be noisy as hell at the gig because it's sharing power with the pinball machine.



So anyway. I recommend making power brick mentioned above. It has worked very well for me. I've heard there are decent commercial units available at a decent price from Harley Benton, et al. but I can't vouch for them.

[balazs.bencs]

Well.. yeah most people say isolation is not a big deal, and I agreed back then, but outside of my living room, it always caused issues. If you plan to gig with the pedals you made (or any pedal), you have to have decent power on your board, because there's going crappy power at small clubs, or bad wiring on stage, or whatever bad condition - your rig is going to buzz, there is going to be hum, and when you start stacking pedals, it's only going to get worse.
Another issue that I always had: digital pedals (yes your tuner as well), they are putting a lot of noise to ground, which is increasing with gain stages, isolation can solve that too!

So long story short: since I started using a decent isolated power supply, I have zero noise issues. Not everything is isolated (not everything has to be), only 2-3 pedals are daisy chained, but that solves all the issues for me at gigs.

If you are not playing a lot of gigs, I don't see the point of having an isolated power supply, that's a waste of money.

[Teddeeh]

Thanks for your help guys.
I will make the power supply by rocket. I do have a question regarding that but i think im gonna ask it on the post aswell as here.
The first section to the power supply, is that modular? I.e. removing the 18v, removing the -9v and adding a further 6-10 +9v outputs as all i need is 9v’s.

[induction]

Teddeeh wrote

The first section to the power supply, is that modular? I.e. removing the 18v, removing the -9v and adding a further 6-10 +9v outputs as all i need is 9v’s.

Yes, exactly.