Reliable source for PT2399s

[cylens]

hey there,

I'm at a loss, here: I've tried many PT2399 delays designs and have always been disappointed

I either have very high standards regarding sound quality (which I do not think is the case) or I am very unlucky with sourcing PT2399s... I've tried 3 or 4 suppliers and always find them noisy...

I just built a Deep Blue Delay to experiment with an insert loop and once again, i find it too noisy for my taste...

I'm planning to build a PT80 delay to see if the compander helps with the noise, but it's my last try with DIY digital delays, I'll end up with a Behringer or Boss one... yuck

Anyway, here's the reason  of this thread, I'm looking for a reliable source for PT2399s just to be 100% sure that I have not been just VERY unlucky... If someone have a few chips that are verified, I'll gladly pay for them whatever the cost is.

[Beaker]

Where are you Cylens? I get mine from Steve at Dr Tweek here in the UK, they are batch tested (whatever that really means), but I've never had a bad one from him.

Maybe if want to order a lot from him, he would be willing to individually test them for you. He is a great guy to deal with.

[cylens]

hey, thanks for your reply,
i'm from france, so uk is fine. actually i remember seeing those "batch tested" pt2399s but couldn't remember where... now i know!
will definitely order from him

thanks again

[cylens]

woops, site has been down for 2 months...

[Beaker]

Hi Cylens, I did not realise that his shop was still closed. Merde, Je suis desole!

You could try these guys in the US, as their price is very good for large quantities. I would send then an ebay message and ask them specifically if they have been tested. Again if you asked, maybe they would be willing to test them for you before dispatch.

I think it would be worth a try.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25x-PT2399-Echo-Delay-IC-DIP-PTC-Audio-Stompbox-DIY-Princeton-Technology-USA-/150646510387?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

[motterpaul]

I guess I just got lucky, I bought a batch from cheapo GK electronics on eBay (50 for $16.97) and my first Deep Blue sounds just fine.

I did notice that mine were not the ones some people had posted as being "fakes" - mine look like the originals. The fakes had DTC printed on them rather than PTC. I also saw some (online) with Kanji characters, probably not a good sign.

Now, I do not know what you are hearing in your builds. I think my deep blue (for example) has decent sound quality, but I know that having the right opamp also made a big difference (I needed to source an OP275 to go with it).

But once built, it is quiet and the delay is good in fidelity. Setting the controls is tricky, especially for mix, and repeat, but it certainly works and I could use it live.

[motterpaul]

In fact, Cylens - if you are in the US I will just send you some since I have 49 left, and I doubt I will ever use them.

The same for anyone else in the US (sorry, I don't what it costs to mail to EU, but if you know and its reasonable I will do it).

If you like them after you build something, maybe you could send or paypal me a $1 to cover time & postage.

[motterpaul]

hmmm - no takers yet? funny. Actually, I recall that I built two working Deep Blues with these chips I have.

[cylens]

Hey Paul,

I'm from France! That's very kind of you! In the meantime I've looked for info about counterfeit PT2399s and it seems like I have genuince chips. I'll make a soundclip of my Deep Blue Dealy straight in the interface, just so I make it clear about what I'm hearing!!

If you have (much, hopefully) better results with your chips (a soundclip on your side would be great, if it's not too much to ask...), I'll definitely take some (say 5), I can Paypal you whatever the shipping costs are.

[Chris60601]

You might try guitarpcb for that chip

---

From: [hidden email]
Sent: ‎3/‎30/‎2015 5:35 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Reliable source for PT2399s

Hey Paul,

I'm from France! That's very kind of you! In the meantime I've looked for info about counterfeit PT2399s and it seems like I have genuince chips. I'll make a soundclip of my Deep Blue Dealy straight in the interface, just so I make it clear about what I'm hearing!!

If you have (much, hopefully) better results with your chips (a soundclip on your side would be great, if it's not too much to ask...), I'll definitely take some (say 5), I can Paypal you whatever the shipping costs are.

---

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[motterpaul]

I was also thinking I should make a sound clip so I will do it today.

[cylens]

here's a quick clip

the chain is pretty clean (guitar->DBD->DI->Aurora converters->RME interface) so only the chip is to blame:

http://clients.cylens.net/diy/dbd.wav

I start with the worst case scenario: mix all the way up, delay all the way up, feedback @0 : I get only one delayed (and noise) signal, then I take it on an acceptable ground (and the DBD design really helps), then back to sonic mayhem with 400ms delay and more and feedback

MAybe there's nothing to expect more from a PT2399...

and for the record, here's what I recorded some time ago with a 1776 multiplex, mix fully CW, feedback @ 0, and delay all the way up...

http://clients.cylens.net/diy/multiplexnoise.wav

when I posted it to madbean forums, I was told something was wrong with my build... I couldn't find anything and build another one... with same results

I just wanna know if there's something wrong with MY chips or if it's only the PT2399 limitations...

[motterpaul]

I think your "dbd" PT2399 build sounds just as I expected it would sound. It is merely a delay chip (not reverb). The repeats I hear are clean and fade away as expected. To my ear, that is all that the PT2399 does and I think most people will agree.

Of course, it sounds more interesting if you put some kind of overdrive or amp simulator in front of it, or if you play in rhythm to the delay, etc. And as you mentioned, you have to get the mix (especially) just right. I use delay mostly to make lead playing more interesting, and if I get the mix just right, it does what I expect it to do in that application.

On the 1776 demo, I only heard one repeat. It's early here (5:00 am) so I can't turn it up.

I'm not sure what more you want to hear - possibly more of a reverb effect?

[cylens]

OK, I think you'll hear it when you can turn the volume up: the single repeat is really distorted.

past 350/400ms it's not acceptable for me...

[motterpaul]

Yes, I hear the distortion now in clip 2. When I do my sound check I will see if I get the same distortion on long delays to see if it is in the chip.

I never noticed that much distortion on my circuit before, but then I never set it for such a long delay time merely as a clean tone listening test.  Mostly I wanted to see how it worked for lead playing, which is generally a pretty thick and overdriven sound with shorter delay times for me anyway. I think it works fine for that (as I expect a delay pedal to sound).

I think that even my TC Helicon delay tends to get pretty muffled on longest delay settings, especially if you are just hearing the naked delay signal. But it also has a lot of different tone settings from "analog" to "lo-fi" to "digital" and even "tape" - so they have many more components and features on their pedals.

[cylens]

OK, Paul, thanks for taking the time to look at it!

Once again, I have no problem if that's the limitation of PT2399s but people have sworn that their builds are "super clean sounding" which made me wonder if I had bad chips...

I'm also looking at the FV-1 processor and related projects

[motterpaul]

This demo was done really fast & it's early morning here, so not a professional "demo."

The first hits are like yours - everything full (delay only) - just hitting the strings. Next I had an overdrive in front (but I did not take a lot of time to dial it in - just went for it). I will do a real demo of these things later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il4q9q5wguo&feature=youtu.be

[cylens]

thanks for taking the time to record that, paul.

i think i have my answer between your video (which is nice and proves that a pt2399 based delay can be used to make great stuff) and this demo video of the DBD I have found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ezshNS4TA

at 4:04 I'm hearing the same thing as in "mine" and the part at 4:37 is even worse. I think that it's simply not usable with clean sound for these delay time settings... I could deal with it, but I can't "unhear" the noise :D

[motterpaul]

I have to be honest and say that I don't hear any distortion at those spots. What I do hear is something else MISSING that I made a comment about earlier called "ducking" - that is a feature they build into some delays where anytime the there is live signal from the guitar, the delay output is brought down so it does not override the live playing.

If that it is it, I agree with you that this design falls short. I happen to think ducking is an important feature, and so is tap tempo (or other ways to set the tempo) - but ducking is a pretty complicated circuit where some kind of limiter triggered by the input delay needs to (sidechaining) reduce the volume of the delayed signal in real time - so no delay plays over the live guitar.

For clean and longer delays this is obviously more important. For lead you can find that sweet spot where you hear the delay all the time but it isn't overpowering.

Also - I am not an engineer, but in my mind I envision someone designing a circuit with a dual opamp where if one input is getting signal it uses some kind of inverse logic to reduce the output of the second input (which would be used for the delay signal). Like this (but not completely off)



In any case - to my ear the PT2399 sounds as good as most delay chips. Even my TC Electronics pedal does not have great tonal fidelity. But it has other tricks. It also has a way to set the delay time based upon your playing tempo.

[alltrax74]

cylens I experiment the same pb as you have with DBDs (I built 4 or 5 of them).
And even with highly selected dr tweek chips...

Edit : are you on g.com ?