resistor values

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
17 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

resistor values

lucas abela
hi sorry another stupid newbie question

i'm ordering parts but am having trouble finding some resistors for teh projects i'm interested in

specifically 2k / 2m7 / 43R / 510K

wondering if near enough is good enough works in such situations

like should i just use these parts which are the closest values i can find?

2k2 / 2m2 / 39R / 511k

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

induction
Usually, differences of 10% or less don't matter, but there are exceptions. So you'll probably be fine, but unless you tell us what you're building, we can't say for sure.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

lucas abela
cheers how about diodes

i can't find 1N5817 or 9V1 zener from

Casper Electronics Echobender
and
ZVex Super Hard On - Compact Layout

i know diodes stop current from passing but is there much difference between them and if so what do the names of each diode say about there ability to stop current

like most seam to have a convention 1N**** so dose do these numbers mean anything?

and then why dosnt 9V1 zener use this convention?

even the supplier i'm looking at has a zener page
http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/zeners-1/

which follows the above convention making me scratch my head at what is 9v1

is it simply a diode that stops 9 volt?



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

Neil mcNasty
In reply to this post by lucas abela
This is something I come across a lot...
What I do is get my calculator out an try to find 2 resistors that match up as close as possible to the value needed.
Meaning: find 2 resistors that you connect in series to get the desired value (2x 1K becomes 2K)
Or... You can find 2 (same value) resistors that gives you the desired value when you connect them in parallel (side by side in the same holes of the vero). When connected in parallel, you divide the value by 2 (half)

I normally go for resistors in series (solder them together at the middle)
So... then I would use two 1K to get 2K, a 2.2m + 470k to get something close to 2.7m (2.67m), a 33k + 10k to get 43k, and a 470k + 33k that gives you 513k

Remember that resistors normally has an error margin of 5 or 10%. Meaning that if you get the value inside a 10% margin, it normall works pretty well. It will produce sound, and I will be amazed if you'll notice the difference...

There us a brilliant guide to this issue from one of the kindest and most helpfull man in the DIY pedal community: R.G Keen
I really want to give you a link, but my stupid iPhone (which is supposed to be smart) will not give the "paste" option in this forum, so do a search for "Keens Laws" and read the best tip you'll ever get about diy pedal building. Do not listen to "the experts"! They are full of shit and allways has an agenda...😜💀👯💥
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

lucas abela
In reply to this post by lucas abela
using my brain i think ive got it

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/diode-zener-1n4739a/

is rated 9.1v 1 watt

so i guess by zenver 9V1 he means 1N4739A ?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

lucas abela
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

induction
In reply to this post by lucas abela
9V1 means 9.1V. So you want a diode with a 9.1V zener voltage, though really you can use anything up to 19V or so for this circuit. In any case the 1N4739A at smallbear is a 9V1.

Background info: a normal diode conducts when forward biased (ie the voltage is higher on the anode than the cathode)*, but not when reverse biased. A zener diode conducts when forward biased, but also conducts when reverse biased by more than the zener voltage. They are often used to limit voltages. Mosfets are sensitive to voltage spikes. They will die when they see more than 20V between gate and source. The zener is there to prevent that from happening. That's why you can use diodes with zener voltage up to 19 or so. It's a protection diode, and it has no effect on the sound.

* by more than the forward voltage Vf, usually  between 0.2V and 0.7V, higher for leds.

As for the 1N5817, it's a schottky diode, and it's used as an inline reverse polarity protection diode (aka 'dummy diode', as in "whoops, I plugged the wrong adapter into my pedal"). This is another protection diode, and has almost no effect on the sound, unless it drops too much voltage. You can use any common diode here, but schottkys are nice because their forward voltage is low, so you don't lose much voltage across the diode. The 1N5818 on smallbear's schottky diode page will work fine. So will the BAT41 and BAT46.

Zener voltages and forward voltages are listed on the datasheets for each part. So once you know what you're looking for, you can just google the part numbers and look for the values.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

Silver Blues
In reply to this post by lucas abela
Okay.

Yes, in most cases "close enough" works just fine. As has been stated, within 10% is usually fine. In most cases the difference will be unnoticeable or subtle. The three types of resistors you'll see most used are those with 10%, 5% or 1% tolerance, and more specifically 5% carbon film or 1% metal film. If your substituted value is within 5% don't even worry about it. But like Induction said, it depends on what you're doing, because as innocuous as it may seem to alter a value by 10%, it can have effects ranging from slightly shifting your tone to completely mucking up your biasing.

Most diodes, at least the commonly used (and not just by our kind) silicon small-signal and rectifier diodes, use the 1NXXXX naming convention. It's really just a convention, same with the 2NXXXX convention with transistors. The ones you should know about are
1. 1N4148 and similar. As of a number of years ago equivalent to the 1N914, the most common small-signal diode in use likely across the electronics industry. Has a forward voltage of ~0.7V, and can handle 50-75V reverse and 500mA of current. Used widely for clipping and rectification of small signals.
2. 1N400x series. Common rectifier diodes usually used in higher-power applications. The one we tend to use is the 1N4001, because it's physically the smallest and already way de-rated for our applications. Increasing suffix number (i.e. 1N4002, 1N4004, 1N4007) indicate increasing voltage rating; they all handle 1A.
3. 1N581x series. Slightly less common Schottky rectifier diodes, this just means they have a lower forward voltage drop than the "regular" diodes. We use the 1N5817 as series polarity protection so we get less loss of supply voltage. Again, increasing suffix number (1N5818, 1N5819) indicate increasing voltage rating. You'll sometimes see the 1N5818 used in 18V and up circuits.
4. There's a slew of different types of germanium diode out there. Commonly used parts are 1N34A, 1N60/1N60P, 1N270, D9x, SFDxxx, and so on. The use of these are less clear-cut because most are used in clipping applications and so are subjective.
5. Zener diodes. These are diodes that actually let reverse current flow if the voltage is above their breakdown voltage. So if you have a 9.1V Zener diode, it will conduct like a normal diode until the voltage hits 9.1V, under which circumstances it will begin to let current flow in the opposite direction. They tend to be used as simple voltage regulators and for overvoltage protection, especially of static-sensitive components like MOSFETs.

Also something to note is that a diode does not necessarily "stop current", but rather only allows it to flow in one direction.  

The 1N4739A is a type of 9.1V Zener, but not the only 9.1V Zener in the world. If a 9.1V Zener is called for then any one will work presuming the power handling is sufficient. 1W is definitely sufficient for this application.

It's just fine to use a 1N5818 in place of a 5817, all that's different is the voltage capacity.
Through all the worry and pain we move on
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

Silver Blues
Lol Induction beat me to that one.
Through all the worry and pain we move on
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

motterpaul
About Zener Diodes -

I am working on the Diesel Diefet and it has a charge pump - but following the charge pump is a 9.1 zener. I keep thinkig that I need that diode because parts of the build (it is a big build) don't want to see the 18v the charge pump puts out - but I have been trying to work without it because I don't have one - all I have is a 12 or an 8v zener.

Am I better off with something rather than nothing? Or should I should I shop for some? The the left of IC 2.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

motterpaul
In reply to this post by lucas abela
I have been doing this for less than a year - but I am on my third resistor assortment (arriving soon) and all of them offer different values.

Beaker explained it to me that there have been different standards E12, E24 and E48 - which all define different sets of resistor values. A lot of designers have access to them all and may use any resistor at any time.

Try to build anything by Cornish and see how many he uses that you don't have. If you are going to keep going I recommend getting an assortment with as many different values as you can find.

I just bought this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141485347468?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

580pcs 1/4W Metal Film Resistor Assort 29 kinds values 1% 20pcs/Kind

10Ω、22Ω、47Ω、100Ω、150Ω、200Ω、220Ω、270Ω、330Ω
470Ω、510Ω、680Ω、1KΩ、2KΩ、2.2KΩ、3.3KΩ、4.7KΩ
5.1KΩ、6.8KΩ、10KΩ、20KΩ、47KΩ、51KΩ、68KΩ、100KΩ
220KΩ、300KΩ、470KΩ、680KΩ、1M

It doesn;t have 0, 1, 3, 5 or 2.2M or higher (I already have those), but it has a lot of good in-between values: 200, 2k, 20k, - I had another assortment that got me 500 and 500k.

Resistors only cost about 1-cent apiece, but the 580-piece was $4.16 with free shipping.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

Beaker
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

motterpaul
Those are nice selections, I wish I had seen those first (in dollars).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

Beaker
This post was updated on .
The last two are from China, so should be on US ebay too, in dollars.

EDIT: Actually the caps were priced in dollars anyway - $12  for 720.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

motterpaul
I know, I just have to figure out how to search for them - gotta dump the eBay european session cookie and open a fresh browser window searching the same store name in dollars. Alas, I just bought some anyway, but I wish I had seen it.

EDIT: saw the caps and you gave me an idea. I just did a build where I had to use electros for .1 uf and figure out polarity, but I forgot I had the MMCs, I am going to replace those.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

induction
In reply to this post by motterpaul
motterpaul wrote
About Zener Diodes -

I am working on the Diesel Diefet and it has a charge pump - but following the charge pump is a 9.1 zener. I keep thinkig that I need that diode because parts of the build (it is a big build) don't want to see the 18v the charge pump puts out - but I have been trying to work without it because I don't have one - all I have is a 12 or an 8v zener.

Am I better off with something rather than nothing? Or should I should I shop for some? The the left of IC 2.
You're a bit confused about what that zener is doing. It's not at the output of the charge pump, protecting the rest of the circuit from 18V, it's at the input of the charge pump, protecting the charge pump itself from supply voltage over 9.1V.

The idea is that some charge pumps (specifically MAX1044) cannot tolerate input voltages over 10.5V or they will let the magic smoke out. Some unregulated 9V can easily supply 12V or more, so this can be a real problem. Many a MAX1044 has gone to heaven after meeting an unregulated 9V adapter. The zener is there to divert any supply voltage in excess of 9.1V to ground, so the chip can live to see another day.

The 7660S can handle a higher input voltage without giving up the ghost. Check the datasheet from your manufacturer to be sure, but Intersil says theirs can take an absolute maximum of 13V.

So the answer your question depends on which charge pump chip you used. If you used a MAX1044, the 9V1 zener is a really good idea, especially if you use an unregulated adapter. If you use a battery or a regulated adapter, you can live without the zener, but it won't hurt anything to have it in there for insurance. A 12V zener will do exactly nothing to protect a MAX1044. An 8V zener will work ok. You'll get less than 18V out of the charge pump (closer to 15V), but the original circuit only called for 12V in the first place, so it should sound fine. However, you will be constantly dumping current through that zener, so it would be good to put a 100 ohm resistor in series between the zener and ground if you go that route.

If you used a 7660S, your 12V zener will probably do the trick, but check the datasheet just to be sure.

Or you could just spend the 15 cents on the 9V1 zener and be done with it.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: resistor values

motterpaul
Thanks induction... good answer. I see it now and I had heard that about max1044.

I am just trying to troubleshoot my Diesel which is not working perfectly.