How Do i lower output volume

[2liveis2die]

Recently i built a Great destroyer clone, but the output is verl loud. it goes from silent to unity much too quickly pretty much from 0 to 1 id there a way i can lower the output volume? or maybe make the sweep more usable

Heres the vero i built. output is from vol 1

[Synsound]

Try replacing the Vol. pot with a linear or anti-log pot of the same value.

[Neil mcNasty]

The Dwarfcraft Pedals are insanely loud, almost to the point of silliness.

Here's how I've dealt with my Robot Devil that has the same issue:
If the volume action you need is from 0 to 2, and you are using a 100K pot, then a 10K or 25K could be a better option, since more than 25K attenuation to ground at the output is too loud, so a 25K should be more than enough as a volume pot on this one.
Using lower value volume pots brings the output attenuation closer to ground, and therefore it gets closer to a more normal output level...

[Beaker]

Look in the "offboard" header at the top of the page. There is a tiny trimpot daughter board you can add between the volume pot and the switch.

That way you can dial the volume down to an acceptable level before you screw the lid on. If you decide later you need it louder, it's a ten second job with a screwdriver.

I've used it a couple of times, and it works.

[traktop]

You mean a volume pot before a volume pot, correct?
Would a resistor in series worked the same way?

[Beaker]

Correct. You could just solder a resistor to the volume pot lug 1, and the output wire to the other end of the resistor.

You just need to try a few to get a suitable value. I've done this on a Harmonic Perculator which was crazy loud.

[nocentelli]

Lug1? I would advise putting a resistor equal to the value of the pot either before Lug3 (i.e. after the output cap) or between lug2 and the output. If the pot is 100k, try a 100k resistor for a rough idea. Much more than double the pot value may lead to audible changes in the tone

[Beaker]

Sorry, you are right. I too would put a resistor between the board and the volume pot in this case. You are also right about not exceeding the pot value.

[Beaker]

Sorry, I've not been very clear here, and probably only added confusion.

If you look at most schematics, they have a resistor just before the output sets the maximum volume. You can usually change this resistor value if the pedal is too loud, or if it is too quiet.

This circuit does not have one, hence the insanely high volume. You may have room to fit one (standing) on the board itself. Try a few things, and see what is the best solution.

[traktop]

I´m having problems managing the massive volume that this circuit throws:

This one hasn´t got any resistor before volume pot. It uses an A100k pot for volume, so I tried with a 1M linear pot but still raise in volume very quickly.
I guess I´ve got the right taper, (log), for volume, so linear or antilog would make things worst.
I didn´t try a resistor+pot combination though...

[Neil mcNasty]

Seems like there is a lot of un-necessary confusion regarding this simple subject, but let's try one more time to to make this subject as dead simple as it actually is:

Forget about taper! Forget about parallel resistors at the output!
This only confuses the subject and should be left out of the discussion for now...

This has nothing to do with the fact that your desired action is at the beginning of the pot.
If it is too loud... you are looking for a smaller value pot, not a bigger one!

Taper does not apply here yet, as it is something you change/decide upon later, when you already have the desired action/response from the pot (across it's whole travel), meaning; when it does what it is supposed to do, but then you change the taper because you want it to have a different "grading", ...like less immediate reaction at the start of the travel.
This is not the same as you are experiencing here...

What you are experiencing is: dead/unusable travel at the last 80% of the pot, and therefore we know that the pot is too big for the task, because all the desired action is bunched up at the front/beginning, and by the fact that the rest of the travel is useless/un-necessary.
A smaller pot, ...say a B10K pot, has the same response/action as the first 1/10th part of a B100K pot. And a B100K has the first 1/10th action of a B1M pot... So therefore a smaller pot is the way to go! Not a bigger one! A bigger one worsens the problem...

Volume 101:
The volume intensity is set by how far it is from ground, so if it is too loud, then bring it closer to ground by reducing the value of the pot (or the the resistor to ground at the output when not using a volume pot).
Many people has this logic reversed, and conclude: higher resistance to handle stronger/louder signal, but that is wrong, because we are talking resistance to ground, not resistance to output! Therefore the logic is opposite!

A 100k pot turned all the way up/set at max, is exactly the same as a fixed 100K resistor to ground at the output, ...and when turned all the way down there is 0K resistance to ground.
In other words: Closer to ground makes it lower in volume, and further away (more resistance) from ground and it gets louder, and if it is directly connected to ground, it makes it dead silent!
When using a volume pot: the pot is the resistor to ground at the output, therefore you do not find this on the Acapulco Gold.

To sum it all up one more time, in a simple manner:
If a volume pot has it's desired action at the start of the pot, and the rest is too loud...
It is a clear indication that the original pot is too big for "your" use, and it is therefore better to choose a lower value.

[Muadzin]

Neil mcNasty wrote

To sum it all up one more time, in a simple manner:
If a volume pot has it's desired action at the start of the pot, and the rest is too loud...
It is a clear indication that the original pot is too big for "your" use, and it is therefore better to choose a lower value.

I like that simple and elegant solution. Does it automatically follow that if a pedal is too soft with the volume maxed that you should increase the value?

[Frank_NH]

One additional point about the A.G. and other circuits where you want to reduce the volume.  What you actually need is a voltage divider, since reducing the output voltage (amplitude) reduces the volume.   A potentiometer wired for volume control is a voltage divider such that full CCW all your signal goes to ground, at full CW you have ~100% of the voltage amplitude (assuming the impedance of the last stage of your circuit prior to the volume control is "small"), and anywhere in between gives you some fraction of the signal (depending on the taper).

So what if your output is too much (i.e. too loud)?  Then use a fixed resistor prior to volume control such that the resistor + the max pot value gives you the voltage reduction you want.  For example, you have a  100K volume pot (ignore the taper for now) and the volume output is too loud.  You want to knock the voltage amplitude down by 50%.  What can you do?  One way would be to put a 100K resistor from the last stage output to lug 3 of a 100K volume pot.  That way, when the volume pot is maxed out, your voltage is now 50% of what it once was.  Another way would be to use a 50K resistor and a 50K pot.  Does it matter what value your volume pot is?  That's a complicated question, but in short you don't want it too small (like 1K) or too large (like 1M), assuming that the thing you're sending the signal to (another pedal or your amp) has a reasonably high impedance input.  

 

[Neil mcNasty]

Does it automatically follow that if a pedal is too soft with the volume maxed that you should increase the value?

Not always! Sometimes there is no more volume on tap in the first place, so raising it would not help in that case. If there is something like a 220K resistor to ground before entering a 100K pot, I would try to replace both the resistor and pot with a 250-500K pot, and see if the volume increases...

If you see a 10K volume potentiometer, i guess there should be more volume to get out of it by raising it.
But if it is a 500K pot, there might not be much to gain from it... (based on my own observations)

Sometimes raising the value can make it a bit harsher in the top end, as the resistance to ground sometimes can have the effect of rolling off a tiny bit of top end.

This effect you can clearly notice when rolling down your guitar volume slightly, as the sparkle in the top end wears off as you turn down.
On guitars (and on pedals too) this can be cured by adding a treble bleed cap (normally 470pf to 1nf) between lug 2 & 3 of the Volume pot, allowing treble frequencies to keep bleeding trough when you turn down.
This is a very handy trick to use if going from a 100K volume pot to a 25K, and the result is a slightly muddier sound (less treble)

I'm not sure if this is the most correct answer, it is more how I understand it...
Hope it helps!

[nocentelli]

Whilst altering the pot value will alter the perceived loudness of the circuit, it will also alter the bass response and possibly the interaction RE:  impedance with the next pedal in the chain. The first issue might not be a problem for an extreme noise dirt pedal, the latter is the reason most divider volume pots are usually 10k to 250k.

I'd put a resistor before the volume pot in the acapulco gold, just to pad it down a bit; The first pedal has a really weird arrangement of volume pot, which I assume has lug three and lug one labels reversed (so it works backwards) but also has the output taken from the outer lug (1) and the input to the pot going to the wiper. I've seen a few Catalinbread pedals and maybe death by audio do this but don't understand why circuit output cap to lug 3, wiper is output, lug 1 ground like normal.

[2liveis2die]

Sorry about the late replys been busy lately. Thanks for all the responces. I have a 22k pot on hand so ill try that tomorrow night and report back.

[traktop]

Thanks. I´ve got different value pots. I will try it with a tresistor before the pot as well.
Cheers, Gilberto.

[Muadzin]

Neil mcNasty wrote

Does it automatically follow that if a pedal is too soft with the volume maxed that you should increase the value?

Not always! Sometimes there is no more volume on tap in the first place, so raising it would not help in that case. If there is something like a 220K resistor to ground before entering a 100K pot, I would try to replace both the resistor and pot with a 250-500K pot, and see if the volume increases...

If you see a 10K volume potentiometer, i guess there should be more volume to get out of it by raising it.
But if it is a 500K pot, there might not be much to gain from it... (based on my own observations)

Sometimes raising the value can make it a bit harsher in the top end, as the resistance to ground sometimes can have the effect of rolling off a tiny bit of top end.

This effect you can clearly notice when rolling down your guitar volume slightly, as the sparkle in the top end wears off as you turn down.
On guitars (and on pedals too) this can be cured by adding a treble bleed cap (normally 470pf to 1nf) between lug 2 & 3 of the Volume pot, allowing treble frequencies to keep bleeding trough when you turn down.
This is a very handy trick to use if going from a 100K volume pot to a 25K, and the result is a slightly muddier sound (less treble)

I'm not sure if this is the most correct answer, it is more how I understand it...
Hope it helps!

Very helpful indeed. I know that on guitars different values are being for volume pots depending on what kind of pickups are used, as humbuckers are usually paired with higher value pots then single coils, as they benefit from having the extra treble. It explains why Skreddy has those caps on the volume of his Muff builds.

[Neil mcNasty]

Just to make my statements clear:
A resistor before the pot is the most correct way to do this, but I intentionally left that part out in order to make stuff less confusing and as dead simple as possible.

Electronics is very confusing when you start out trying to understand what is going on, and sometimes the complete and correct answer makes some people more confused than before. It surely had that effect on me when I started out trying to understand these things.
It felt like everyone was working for NASA (Never A Straight Answer), shooting information over my head, describing stuff that was way to technical for me.
The remedy for this, is to be able to break it down in simpler terms and allegories + reference to simpler/known stuff, so that everyone will understand.
"Explain like I'm 5" is often the best way to go, even though some people might be offended by such an approach. It surely works!

I did not describe a voltage divider in this case, because I felt that it would have clouded the issue and that it could have generated more questions.
Therefore the simplified version as a start, then wait for the answer: "got it!", and then we take it to the next step, which is adding an extra resistor, and now everyone can see/understand that is going on...
This way we move slower, giving people the chance to try out a simple solution first, before proceeding to the next step.
This way we include everyone who are trying to learn the basics.

[Beaker]

That's a great way to look at things.