New DIY platform for pedals, feedback needed!

[Geiri]

Hey guys, I want to introduce an idea to you that my friend is working on and I'm helping him out as much as I can. I need people to be open minded and it would be cool to get ideas.

My friend from Finland designs the PCB layouts for my standard pedals and he's an absolute genius and full of ideas. His idea is to design a very simple DIY platform which incorporates the pros of PCBs and veroboard where you solder the footswitch straight to the board along with other things like pots.

It will be laid out in a very nice way so that it fits into a 1590B enclosure. The area for the circuit will be like a veroboard but with some improvements.

Teemu, the guy who's designing this, will be joining this discussion to answer questions and further discuss details. He has a much clearer vision of this and is more capable of describing how this will be.

The idea is to release these boards and make lots of layouts for them and it would be cool to publish the layouts on this site (if there's enough interest of course!).

Cheers!

[Vince]

Sounds interesting and I'm sure some people will be interested. I personally dislike PCB's and pot/switch mounting. No real reason why, I just enjoy the process of it all and the 'organic' nature if it.

[IvIark]

I'd be very interested to see what the idea is.  To me the offboard wiring is always the biggest pain in the arse and there's no doubt that I would find it an attractive option to have the stomp layout already taken care of by the PCB.  With ground and 9V connections too and maybe including filtering and polarity protection components and a pulldown resistor somewhere away from the main circuit area, that would help to keep things neat and tidy whilst maximising the space available around the stomp section of the PCB.

The problem for me would come with the input and output sockets.  I don't like using the plastic ones that are often seen attached to PCBs, no matter how much easier that will make the offboard wiring.  I like open Neutrik type which would get in the way of the board unless there were cutouts done between the main circuit area and switch area to make allowances for the space needed for that type of socket.

The number of pots and any extra switches wouldn't matter too much because the connections for those are usually at the end columns of the vero in these layouts and so you could just do the same thing.  

The only other issue for me with regard to pots and offboard switches is that I'm assuming if the stomp is incorporated then the board will show solder side when you open the box, like when you mount a vero upside down.  One problem for me would be that if the section of board at the top which is where the main circuit will be, needs to be on the same level as the board for the stomp, then you're going to be taking away a lot of valuable space behind where the pots and switches will live.  When I've used stomp PCBs in the past they more often than not sit much lower in the box than I would like the main board to be because of the logistics of how the switch is mounted to the front of the box and the distance from that to the solder lugs of the stomp where the board will rest.  I know you can use two nuts to push the stomp back further in the box but I would have some concerns about how exact this would need to be for the average user so that there was no concerns about stresses on the board itself or offboard components.

I'm still all for something like this though.  Anything which makes building easier will always have my 100% support!

[Lee Oswald]

I'd love to see something vero based that eliminated the off board wiring.
As |V|ark said, the off board is the unpleasant aspect of building this way.

There is something more enjoyable, and freeing about doing vero as opposed
to PCB.

I'd love to see the idea work.

[Teemi]

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback!

This is what I am planning to include currently:

• Board mounted 3PDT switch, with both FX input and FX output grounded when bypassed
• Support for both open jacks and board mounted jacks
• Multiple places for LED, and also wirepads to put it anywhere you want
• A dedicated current limiting resistor that is connected to all LED holes on the board
• Multiple places for power connection; it's even possible to use Boss style board mounted power jack
• A dedicated parallel protection diode
• Dedicated common filtering RC network that is connected to all power connections on board
• An alternative protection diode that will be in series can be placed instead of the filtering RC network
• Multiple rows of larger holes on top of the board that allow long legged pots to be mounted directly to board

Just keep the ideas coming! I'm drawing a sketch and hope to upload it soon, as a picture is always easier to read than a list.

[Jopn]

Geiri wrote

The idea is to release these boards and make lots of layouts for them and it would be cool to publish the layouts on this site (if there's enough interest of course!).

Cheers!

I'm all for innovative ideas to help with development, but I'd hate to see this site moving towards using a proprietary board for future layouts.

[Geiri]

This is definitely not for everyone, like Vince who doesn't like PCBs and that's totally fine. What I think is great about this is that it's just another option and I bet lots of people would like it once it's been perfected. It's hard to visualise this with just a few lines of description.

The idea isn't to overtake this site at all so maybe have another section where those layouts could be posted would suffice?

[Teemi]

Jopn wrote

I'm all for innovative ideas to help with development, but I'd hate to see this site moving towards using a proprietary board for future layouts.

This is a good thing to keep in mind. I'm in no means trying to take over a working community.

For the board layout I'm trying to mimic a standard breadboard. I hope that any layout made for this board is very easy to do on a strip board, too. I'd like to see this board more like an extra feature, not the standard.

[dexxyy]

So I presume this will be 1 board that fits a variety of layouts? I`m also presuming the board will be pre-fabbed and need to be purchased, if so will a transfer be available for anyone who wants to etch their own?

[IvIark]

Jopn wrote

I'm all for innovative ideas to help with development, but I'd hate to see this site moving towards using a proprietary board for future layouts.

I'd never do that, but I would potentially do both.  There isn't going to be to much difference so I could use the vero layout as a template for this and just omit the things that are already covered like power filtering etc.

[Jopn]

Sounds like the Bare Box platform actually:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=1378

[Teemi]

Here's a sketch of what I have in mind. It's not totally accurate in all measures, but accurate enough to verify what can be fitted in.

Legend:

• Blue is ground.
• Red is +V.
• White stripes show connected pads. Only the pads in single white area are connected together.
• All yellow pads are connected to FX In of the footswitch.
• All black pads are connected to FX Out of the footswitch.

The silkscreen will obviously be all white, this color coding is just to help to see the full image.

On the left to the footswitch there is a symbol that looks a little like a resistor. It will actually have 4 pads and a solder jumper in the middle. You can use series resistor or series diode, but not both. If you don't want to use either of those, you have to solder the jumper.

I had to give up adding the on board power socket for now, as I have to keep the board size quite small to make sure it's affordable.

Any feedback is good, but I'd like to have opinions specially on these topics:

1. Should the FX In and FX Out strips be separate like here, or would it make more sense to have the full bottom row as single row that is connected to FX In, and have e.g. the top row connected to FX Out?
2. Would it make sense to have the leftmost pot row (the vertical rows with larger holes) connected to the ground rail? I usually put volume pot to that side, and it would make it very easy to connect lug 1 to ground. Of course that is just one jumper, I might add a solder jumper there to make it easy.
3. I was plannign to add solder jumpers between rows and the separate 5 pad strips in the middle section. Is that something I should do or avoid? I know a badly placed solder jumper can be accidentally connected, but having the solder jumpers would mean less wire jumpers.
4. Is the power and ground rail layout good? It might make sense to shift all strips one hole to left, and move the leftmost ground rails to the right side, at least in the middle section of the board.

[Silver Blues]

@ Jopn that was my concern too. Don't get me wrong, I think its a really neat idea. It would be cool if one could just use pre-existing or at worst lightly modified layouts with this concept.

Not going to lie, I probably won't use them because it's just so easy for me to grab a slice of vero and a bunch of wire and build a pedal. At the same time, I am a good solderhand; I think it would be a great thing for the newbies so as to streamline the arduous task of offboard wiring and reduce the errors in this field that often lead to frustration.

EDIT something else, too: a lot of us I'm sure use the Alpha pots from Tayda, and while these have solder pins, they are parallel with the face of the pot, not right-angled down as would be necessary to use with this kind of board-mounted pot idea. I'm not sure how you could get around this, perhaps there is a supplier that has Tayda's selection of values and pot quality with the proper solder lugs.

[Teemi]

dexxyy wrote

I`m also presuming the board will be pre-fabbed and need to be purchased, if so will a transfer be available for anyone who wants to etch their own?

You are right, I'll design these boards, have them manufactured, and sell them.

I can make transfers available, but I really want to make sure that the price is so low that nobody really wants to drill all those holes.

[Teemi]

Silver Blues wrote

EDIT something else, too: a lot of us I'm sure use the Alpha pots from Tayda, and while these have solder pins, they are parallel with the face of the pot, not right-angled down as would be necessary to use with this kind of board-mounted pot idea. I'm not sure how you could get around this, perhaps there is a supplier that has Tayda's selection of values and pot quality with the proper solder lugs.

SmallBear Electronics has those:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Categories?category=Potentiometers+and+Trimpots%3A16mm%3ARight-Angle+Long-Pin

[Silver Blues]

Ah, all right never mind

[dexxyy]

150% more expensive than tayda, not to mention smallbears ridiculous postal charges to the UK.

[Jopn]

Silver Blues wrote

EDIT something else, too: a lot of us I'm sure use the Alpha pots from Tayda, and while these have solder pins, they are parallel with the face of the pot, not right-angled down as would be necessary to use with this kind of board-mounted pot idea. I'm not sure how you could get around this, perhaps there is a supplier that has Tayda's selection of values and pot quality with the proper solder lugs.

Tayda has started stocking right angle pin pots as well.

[Stoogie]

Hey Folks

I know you guys dont often worry about these things but ...where would the battery go ?? lol ...its important to me :)

Im feeling the ease by going with a method like this ...on paper its a really good idea , i am in engineering so all i do is kinda look for flaws in things and forgive me if this is out of line ...dont you think a PCB is more prone to problems ...i feel that pots with the right angled long solder pins have a place in the electronics world.. but not really for something that is stomped on ?...i always think that when you build a pedal for yourself its not always about saving money ,
for me i use old school time proven components ..i like solder lug so i know if/when it wears i replace on component with ease , so hopefully my pedal will live a long prosperous life ..one mistake with a lose locking nut on a pot that is mechanicaly supporting PCB as well as being part of the circuit is not the path to a long life ,
as for the footswitch ....how many times could it be replaced ...its the most used part of the pedal ..if its mounted to the pcb and it breaks ..how many times could it be replaced before the solder pads peeled from the board .....ive repaired a few board mounted switches ..if your not careful on some market pedals its an easy path to having to modify something to make it work again lol ...been there got the t-shirt :)
again ..i dont see that all important battery slot :) ....i know some ppl may not agree but i dont run any fuzz ever on a power supply
Id love to try one out but my one fear is you would end up with a market type mass produced pedal ...which most of the time a new builder can actually buy for cheaper than making anything ...ie if he doesnt have any stock components or tools ...these things only become cheap for us guys when we have a good stash of parts ..some good knowledge behind us and free time to spend on pedals ...possibly diff for ppl building for profit though !
a good idea for mass production of a market product ....kinda similar to the generic boss pedal c/board,

just my 2p's worth ..i just hope my pedals do become vintage units :)





 

[alltrax74]

Teemi,
What is your target price for the board ?